It's been close to a year... Thoughts on Obama

duga · 04-03-2010, 01:44 PM

Do most people in your region have the same feelings about the healthcare reform? It would make me feel much better about it...all I hear around here is negativity. Maybe it's because I live in a highly conservative state, but it's getting tiring.

As far as Obama's other policies...the title of this thread says it all. He has only been in office for little more than ONE YEAR. I can't stand people saying, "well, it's been a year and the country isn't all fixed...he obviously failed." Right.

Guybrush · 04-03-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

Do most people in your region have the same feelings about the healthcare reform? It would make me feel much better about it...all I hear around here is negativity. Maybe it's because I live in a highly conservative state, but it's getting tiring.

As far as Obama's other policies...the title of this thread says it all. He has only been in office for little more than ONE YEAR. I can't stand people saying, "well, it's been a year and the country isn't all fixed...he obviously failed." Right.

Is this a response to me? In Norway, we've had (near) free health care for as long as I can remember so the word reform confused me a bit. We're very happy about our health care system. Your own Michael Moore was here documenting some of how it is/works for the movie sicko, but it was left out as I guess he thought people would think it seemed too good to be true/believable. So - the bit about Norway was left out, but was included in the DVD extras. Instead of me presenting stuff about it, you can watch that clip on youtube if you'd like.

Not to offend, but I think americans are a bit slow to learn from other countries' politics. Now you've taken a step in the right direction I believe, at least concerning health care.

duga · 04-03-2010, 02:12 PM

^

Yes, it was to you. I was wondering what people in other countries thought about our healthcare reform. We have adopted a lot of what other countries are already doing, but if you look at the actual plan there are still a lot of flaws. That's why I was asking.

And there is no offense. I agree with you totally. I could get into a whole other discussion based on my criticism of American politics, but I would just upset people.

Inuzuka Skysword · 04-03-2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

I could go into more detail if you would like me to, but I'd say a system where economic collapse is inherent is pretty flawed.

And I didn't say socialism doesn't work...nor did I mention Russia at all. I mentioned communism as an example as a tried and failed form of government...but it seems to work for China pretty well albeit in a highly modified way. I think the same could go for capitalism.

I was using the comment about socialism/communism to show that the comment about capitalism that you made is flawed.

You have to look at why capitalism/communism is failing/succeeding in the country of X. You can't just say "Well, communism worked here, so it is a good economic system." When you do that, you are basing your argument more off of correlation, which is weak.

Also, how is economic collapse inherent in capitalism. Please don't use correlative arguments either because in the world of formal logic they don't really mean anything.

duga · 04-03-2010, 04:06 PM

The point of my posts is to show that the way capitalism is run right now is not working. Adding a bit of socialism is what we need. Look up the fractional reserve system and you can see in plain writing how economic collapse is inherent. Not only is it apparent in writing, but we have seen it happen time and again, almost exactly when today's statisticians and economic supervisors predict it will happen.

And in no way was I correlating anything you mentioned. Read my posts again.

ProggyMan · 04-03-2010, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarwinWasAdopted

Is there anyone out there who actually knows what socialism is anymore?

....anybody?

That aside, I find it funny how the US catches up with the rest of the industrialized world and everybody seems to think the ****ing sky is falling. Trust me, you'll like your "socialist" health care better.

The health care bill isn't going to put us anywhere near the rest of the world, it's the worst of both worlds.

ProggyMan · 04-03-2010, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

The point of my posts is to show that the way capitalism is run right now is not working. Adding a bit of socialism is what we need. Look up the fractional reserve system and you can see in plain writing how economic collapse is inherent. Not only is it apparent in writing, but we have seen it happen time and again, almost exactly when today's statisticians and economic supervisors predict it will happen.

And in no way was I correlating anything you mentioned. Read my posts again.

You're not even responding to what he's saying.

duga · 04-03-2010, 11:25 PM

I'm pretty sure I responded to every point he made...

ProggyMan · 04-03-2010, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

The point of my posts is to show that the way capitalism is run right now is not working. Adding a bit of socialism is what we need. Look up the fractional reserve system and you can see in plain writing how economic collapse is inherent. Not only is it apparent in writing, but we have seen it happen time and again, almost exactly when today's statisticians and economic supervisors predict it will happen.

And in no way was I correlating anything you mentioned. Read my posts again.

Quote:

I could go into more detail if you would like me to, but I'd say a system where economic collapse is inherent is pretty flawed.

And I didn't say socialism doesn't work...nor did I mention Russia at all. I mentioned communism as an example as a tried and failed form of government...but it seems to work for China pretty well albeit in a highly modified way. I think the same could go for capitalism.

Read more: http://www.musicbanter.com/newreply....#ixzz0k6epxMg5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword

I would just like to point out that saying capitalism doesn't work because of what has happened here in America is just as foolish as saying Russia's collapse proves that socialism doesn't work.

Read the posts very, very carefully. He was just pointing out that saying because capitalism fails in America does not mean it is inherently flawed.

duga · 04-03-2010, 11:31 PM

I got that...which is why I clarified by saying I meant it is flawed the way it is run in America...which is the whole point of me mentioning communism failing in Russia but working in China.

04-03-2010, 01:44 PM	#21 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	Do most people in your region have the same feelings about the healthcare reform? It would make me feel much better about it...all I hear around here is negativity. Maybe it's because I live in a highly conservative state, but it's getting tiring. As far as Obama's other policies...the title of this thread says it all. He has only been in office for little more than ONE YEAR. I can't stand people saying, "well, it's been a year and the country isn't all fixed...he obviously failed." Right. __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

04-03-2010, 02:12 PM	#23 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	^ Yes, it was to you. I was wondering what people in other countries thought about our healthcare reform. We have adopted a lot of what other countries are already doing, but if you look at the actual plan there are still a lot of flaws. That's why I was asking. And there is no offense. I agree with you totally. I could get into a whole other discussion based on my criticism of American politics, but I would just upset people. __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

04-03-2010, 04:06 PM	#25 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	The point of my posts is to show that the way capitalism is run right now is not working. Adding a bit of socialism is what we need. Look up the fractional reserve system and you can see in plain writing how economic collapse is inherent. Not only is it apparent in writing, but we have seen it happen time and again, almost exactly when today's statisticians and economic supervisors predict it will happen. And in no way was I correlating anything you mentioned. Read my posts again. __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

04-03-2010, 11:25 PM	#28 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	I'm pretty sure I responded to every point he made... __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

04-03-2010, 11:31 PM	#30 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	I got that...which is why I clarified by saying I meant it is flawed the way it is run in America...which is the whole point of me mentioning communism failing in Russia but working in China. __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...