someonecompletelyrandom

Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill - Yahoo! News

Well it happened, folks. The bill that in essence gives Police Offers the right to demand anyone who is "suspicious" to show their papers has been signed into law. Does this mean they'll be "suspecting" Canadians as being illegal immigrants to the US? Nope. It means if you're of Hispanic descent and speak with an accent, the police have the right to demand you prove your citizenship or face being arrested.

Neapolitan

I wouldn't say Hispanic descent, most Mexican that come across the border are Indian, Hispanic-Indian descent and even though they are Spanish speaking they are poor and are different people from the Mexican upper class. And does the Hispanic upper class in Mexico really care where they go? I really don't think they do.

Does Arizona have a right to make laws to protect itself? I think it does, I think if law enforcement has a tool to curb kidknapping that takes place in Phoenix then I don't have anything against it. Is this a law be use to protect people from serious crime, it depend how it's writen and if it is acceptable depends how it's presented in the media. Do I want to see a law used against innocent people? of course not.

__________________

Ronnie Jane Devo

Since you seem to hate the Arizona law so much Conan, could you explain to us what a better alternative is to solving the illegal immigration problem?

__________________
Last.fm

Astronomer

__________________

Ronnie Jane Devo

wtf

__________________
Last.fm

someonecompletelyrandom

How about with a bill that doesn't condone racial profiling?

How about we work more with the Mexican Government about better protection on their side of the border? How about we make the process for people to reside in the US legally easier? Or we could focus our attention on helping Mexico improve as a nation, so people wouldn't be compelled to leave. It may take longer, but if we invested half the money we spend fighting a phony war-on-drugs into it then I don't see it being too far-fetched.

And when did I say I hated Arizona law? That doesn't even make sense. I don't hate Arizona as a state, nor do I have any feelings one way or the other about any other bills the state signs into law. Any state that signs a bill that says a police officer can pull me over based on his personal "suspicions", which can easily translate into profiling, I detest.

How'd you like to be a Mexican American in Arizona? They can arrest and charge you if you don't carry your immigration papers at all times. If we turn our police force into immigration officers, we loose the respect of the communities they try to protect. The communities become afraid of the police force and would refuse involvement in cases crucial to keeping the peace.

Gee, sounds like a great idea to me!

Ronnie Jane Devo

No argument there I guess.

What on earth is the Mexican government going to do about it? They can't even keep their drug cartels under control right now.

My opinions on this are a little complicated, so I'll save it for after we deal with the other points.

That's a nice counterfactual can of worms. Putting aside the fact that the US can barely even take care of itself politically and financially right now, I don't see how it's our responsibility to tell another country how to run its government and society.

You didn't say that, I didn't say you did, and obviously that doesn't make sense.

I don't support racial profiling, but I certainly don't have a problem with 'turning our police force into immigration officers'. If someone is afraid to speak to a police officer because they're doing something illegal, then maybe they shouldn't be doing something illegal in the first place... a novel idea, I know.

__________________
Last.fm

someonecompletelyrandom

I was referring to
but I misread it and didn't see the "the" there. my bad.

That's why I stressed the US helping Mexico to deal with the problem.

It's our responsibility because it's our problem. Illegal immigration is an issue in this country and "building a bigger fence" like The Bush Administration tried obviously won't solve anything - neither will signing a bill into law that has serious ethical and moral implications for civil rights in the state of Arizona. Why not? Why not work with another nation about an issue that effects both the US and that nation?

I don't see any harm in that.

That doesn't change the fact that this will lead to distrust of the police and interfere with police activities and investigations. That undermines the security of an area - whether the illegals have the moral right to be here or they don't I'm not addressing. I'm simply stating what many Police Chiefs across the country (including Arizona) have already said.

Ronnie Jane Devo

Maybe you should specify what you mean by "work with". I recall that Mexico has asked the US to relax our drug laws which I'm fine with, but that's only a tiny part of the problem, and I really can't picture the corrupt Mexican government being willing to take major steps to improve the lives of the population it is arguably exploiting as it is. You can't just assume that the most idealistic solution is the one that's going to work, and not consider more practical alternatives.

Oh for christ's sake, police are there to enforce the law, not be everyone's buddies. What do you expect them to do, turn a blind eye when the amount of lawbreaking becomes inconveniently high?

__________________
Last.fm

someonecompletelyrandom

You mean like racial profiling? I'm not saying you support it. I'm just saying that's what this new law can allow in essence.

What don't you get? Honestly do I really have to explain this again?

I'll spell it out this time.

1. If the police begin acting as immigration officers, animosity will grow between them and the local Mexican/Spanish community. This means that even if they aren't illegal, there will likely be animosity because of a A) they may have experienced racial profiling at the hands of the police B) they may know somebody who was deported by the police, a friend, a family member, etc C) they are afraid to work with police based on their status as a citizen (this includes anything from being illegal to simply not carrying your citizenship papers).

2. If there is animosity between the police and the community, there will be no cooperation with them. This will hinder investigations and other police activities essential to keeping the peace.

What?