cardboard adolescent

The problem is that it's very difficult to overcome desires by struggling against them. Struggling against your desires just ends up giving them fuel and fire. When we're really aware of the desire, really aware of the sensation that we're so attached to, really aware of the consequences of giving in, the undesirable desire fades away by itself. The key is to recognize that what we believe is a great pleasure is actually causing us to suffer, because it's making us agitated or because it has negative consequences.

The hardest victory is the victory over self, but it's the self that desires to struggle and fight. The hardest victory is giving in to peace, and peace is the simplest path

GeddyBass2112

I spoke French until I was 5 and went to school. Don't speak it as much as I'd like, so I'm rusty.

Sometimes it's not about completely denying yourself something but channeling it into something more positive and useful. There's a thing called 'jíhad' in Islam which means 'struggle' or 'striving' and which basically means undertaking those things you find difficult and seeking God in those things to help you. This is the REAL meaning of jihad.

For example, lust is seen as a bad thing in most religions, but channeling that feeling towards that person into a meaningful relationship is not. Same with things like gluttony: overeating and greed are seen as bad things, as well as eating 'bad' foods, whilst following a strict diet (whether it be the prescribed kosher/halal diets, or simply the more simple religious edict to not be greedy and look after the body) can have a reward, both mentally and physically, spiritually and emotionally.

I LOVE Aristotle! I'm sigging this when I can...

VEGANGELICA

Geddy, I like this thoughtful point you make about how struggling to do those things we find difficult but important can be very uplifting.

Some of the actions I've taken in my life that were most meaningful to me (such as deciding to become vegetarian and then vegan out of concern for other animals) were ones that required me to break out of my habits and old way of thinking as I worked toward a goal that felt more in keeping with who I was or wanted to be.

I've never thought of myself as observing any kind of religious belief in becoming vegetarian and then vegan...it was more observing my *own* feelings...yet I do remember when I learned about Buddhism and Hinduism that I felt comforted to know that what I felt had been given a name (ahimsa) because so many other people felt the same way as I:

I think it is interesting how I ended up deciding to be vegetarian when I was an isolated child in a meat-eating family and community...while halfway around the world there were huge numbers of people who had taken this same path as part of major spiritual religious philosophies. I would have liked to have known that at the time.

I see how spiritual organizations, whether secular or religious, can help encourage people to achieve their personal goals, which may actually be the goal of thinking more about others. Then observing the organizations' ideals for behavior is a way to practice using your will to obtain your own goals, such as the goal of living a healthier, kinder life.

I'm never sure to what degree my Unitarian Universalist background as a little child influenced my future choice to become vegetarian for the first time in elementary school, and later vegan as an adult. I imagine that thinking about the UU concepts helped set the stage for me to think about other sentient beings besides humans, since Unitarian Univeralist principles (themselves derived from a variety of religions including Buddhism and Hinduism) include...

* The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
* Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

As a child learning about these concepts, I felt that justice for "all" should include my animal kin, and I would best respect them by not eating them, just as I would not want to be eaten.

Ideally, I feel that observing a spiritual concept about a way to behave shouldn't be about observing a rule that is external to yourself, but instead should revolve around observing how the concept resonates with what is already inside you. I can see how having a spiritual organization of people who uphold a value that resonates with what you feel is very core to who you are would enable you to better observe what is in your own self, and follow your conscience rather than just move rather thoughtlessly through life, copying what others do and not listening to your own inner voice.

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Howard the Duck

mine is more of a case of selective autonomy

i only pick the bits of the Bible I agree with, then I follow it (no restrictions of food)

if it's nonsensical, i rebel (Earth created 6,000 yrs ago)

levio_sah

My religion doesn't have "rules". I believe things. I suppose there are certain things that would stop me from truthfully being able to say I am a participant in my religion if I did them, but I don't want to do those things, so it's not really a rule. How am I supposed to answer this?

GeddyBass2112

^Huh?

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Cello fund: $300/$750.

levio_sah

My religious identity is Pagan. I choose this term because it describes who I am. I'm not going to stop myself from believing or doing anything because it isn't in line with Paganism. If that happened, I would just stop calling myself a Pagan.
This, in contrast with some other religions, where people are like "I can't to that, I'm _____!"
In essence, my identity determines my religion, not vice versa.

pooka

i observe religious people wasting their lives and having racist biased views. but thats me, the hardcore atheist.

Mr November

^ This

Automaticchaos

I grew up in the south(Northern Florida and Alabama), so I've seen how religion can control peoples lives. I was raised in a very devout Catholic home.

My wife and I are both Catholic, but we don't go to church and disagree with a lot of what their dogma preaches.

I never understood these fundamentalist attitudes towards faith. Several Christians preach out against homosexuality, saying the Bible says it's wrong. Well, if you're going to go and say that then, you should also follow EVERYTHING the bible says, such as: Not talking to a woman during her period, selling your daughters into slavery is ok, prohibiting of certain meats.