Religious people: what is your level of observance?

Schranz bass · 03-27-2011, 01:08 PM

Quote:

lmao how did you get that from what geddybass said? Do you think people just pull morals and belief and purpose out of their arse? Unless you've been alive for 10,000 years you can't in any way present a personal moral structure that could rival that which the Abrahamic faiths are built on.

Errm, actually, no, I don't think people extract morals and belief and purpose from their arse.
Why do you think that is possible?

I don't know how long it takes gorillas to develop compassion and love, but humans do it in about 9 months.

Ok, prove it. Ask me any question to test my morals. Provide situations that require a moral decision, and I guarantee my 'personal moral structure' will be much deeper and more effective than 'faiths' are built on.

djchameleon · 03-27-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crukster

In my experience a lot of atheists tend to be pretty evasive about that. The ones I've talked to online (which maybe don't represent the core of atheism and are probably just angry 12 year olds) tend to go by the rule of, while they're telling you how bad religion is, atheism is not a religion or group of any sort, it's just the name "given to them" like infidel or heathen.

But outside of the discussion/in another discussion, those same people argue atheism deserves as much respect as any religion because the choice of "non-belief" (in what tends to be specifically the Abrahamic Faiths) is in itself, apparently a belief and a group. It's hypocrisy.

I think it's stupid. If you truly don't believe in any religion, then there is no relevant word or group you're a part of, religiously speaking. Where you'd write "place your religion here" you'd leave a blank space surely.

That's why generally speaking I don't like atheism, don't respect it. If someone choose not to believe in a religion, or for that matter ANY religion, or God at all, then fine I respect that that's their choice.

But not atheism - atheism to me, equals anti-belief, and nothing in it's own right. I think atheism is arguably the way of the anti-christ, the false messiah, the serpent.

It's completely different from not-believing. People have crisis of faith, people choose not to believe, thats up to them, its not anti- anything it's just the way they go.

But to devote yourself to being ANTI- anything, well then, you cant go and ask for respect from those people. And thats what atheism is imo - anti-religion.

Yeah, I was talking to a friend of mines last night and she said they are technically considered a religion.

I understand why she says they are technically a religion because the definition of religion states a group of people that share the same ideas/ideology. Which is true, they all believe in the non-existence of deities but it just seems like such an oxymoron to have an Atheist Church.

She said there are Atheist churches that exist. I'm like wtf. What do they even talk about there?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning Down

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. PM if you don't think posting them in here is a good idea. Or you don't have to tell me anything, I was just curious. My dad was raised in the Roman Catholic Church, and has always said he didn't hesitate to push it out of his life, and he did so when he married my mother. I get the feeling that people today are leaving Catholicism in droves and I have some theories on why that may be, but I love to hear what other people have to say about this.

I have no problems discussing it here. There is a verse in the bible saying not to worship false idols and something about rituals. Everything that Catholics do is ritualistic if you have ever gone to one of those services. They do that ashe thing where the alter boy goes around. I forget what it is supposed to represent but it's still a ritual. Communion is a ritual but a lot of other denominations also practice this ritual. There are numerous others but I can't go into detail about them because I've never been to one of their services. I just know this information from what I have seen in movies/heard second hand from actual Catholics. The hypocrisy of that alone makes me dislike Catholics.

I also don't like how they persecuted the Illuminati. I have to research this one more but my knowledge of this is strictly from what I have seen of Da Divinci Code and the slight research I did after seeing it. I need to learn more about it though.

I think the reason that others have for not liking Catholics has to do with them ignoring the few bad seeds that are making Catholicism look bad as a whole. The Fathers that have been caught molesting young children.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

No, we don't. Why would we?

What is the purpose of your churches then? I'm curious

TockTockTock · 03-27-2011, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

What is the purpose of your churches then? I'm curious

Churches?

djchameleon · 03-27-2011, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Pat

Churches?

exactly! that's what I thought upon hearing it at first but I'd like to be enlightened. it's not nice to laugh at others religions.

RVCA · 03-27-2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

Yeah, I was talking to a friend of mines last night and she said they are technically considered a religion.

I understand why she says they are technically a religion because the definition of religion states a group of people that share the same ideas/ideology. Which is true, they all believe in the non-existence of deities but it just seems like such an oxymoron to have an Atheist Church.

She said there are Atheist churches that exist. I'm like wtf. What do they even talk about there?

That is untrue. Not all atheists hold beliefs about the existence of deities. Many atheists simply lack belief. Therefore, atheism cannot "technically be a religion", at least not in the traditional and most popular sense of the word.

For further information and a clearer explanation:

djchameleon · 03-27-2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVCA

That is untrue. Not all atheists hold beliefs about the existence of deities. Many atheists simply lack belief. Therefore, atheism cannot "technically be a religion", at least not in the traditional and most popular sense of the word.

For further information and a clearer explanation:

ty for that. I used to think that all Atheists were strong ones and I didn't know about the ones that just simply lack belief all together.

**Janszoon** · 03-27-2011, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

What is the purpose of your churches then? I'm curious

We don't have churches. Also, it should be noted that "atheism" is just a blanket term for people who don't believe in gods, it's not any kind of unified set of beliefs.

GeddyBass2112 · 03-27-2011, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schranz bass

So, am I to understand from this that you don't have your own ideology? or morals? or purpose? and that Judaism provides the nonsensical, reward-punishment way of life for you to follow so that you can think less?

I don't see how following ANY religion, whether it be Judaism, Islam, Christianity or any other religion for that matter equates to 'thinking less'. Indeed, there ARE people who choose to treat their religion as a get-out-of-thinking clause, but there are also people within different religion who are highly intelligent and who do think for themselves. Even the likes of Richard Dawkins will admit that there exists a highly-complex, highly nuanced and intelligent religious group who don't settle for easy answers.

Also, study is a major part of the Jewish culture. Even from the earliest times, Jewish people would study in the yeshivot (kinda like a Sunday school for younger Jews) and the beit midrash (a Torah college of sorts for adult scholars and sometimes teenagers), and see the study of Torah (and more recently, of science) as a duty of being Jewish. There's no such thing as an easy answer in Judaism and anyone who thinks that Judaism provides some easy cut-and-paste answers to all life's problems is wrong.

Also, I wasn't born Jewish, and indeed until I went to uni some 4 years ago I'd never read a siddur, been to a synagogue or even heard of Seder. It's not like I was born into this system and had some system of thought imposed upon me from day 1. I was brought up in a vaguely Christian home, and attended church schools. I wasn't forced to attend any church services or to believe in anything, and so it happens that I formed my own ideas about morality under my own steam, and my own ideology about the world and about any god that might exist. It just so happens that my ideas about these things match to what is taught in Judaism.

Also, it's not like there's no room for personal freedom in a religion. I can still have my own ideas, my own dreams, my own ideas on what my purpose is, but within the framework of Judaism, which I believe will help, not hinder, me in achieving those things. OK, I've had to change things, such as what I wear and eat, but otherwise I'm still very much the person I was before. Hell, I'm probably a BETTER and happier person than before, because I believe that the Jewish systems of kashrut, tnizut and halakha are the right things to do.

I cannot understand why you seem so hostile.

Schranz bass · 03-27-2011, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeddyBass2112

I cannot understand why you seem so hostile.

And I cannot understand how you think I seem hostile.

I asked a question.

It seems to me that you evaluate yourself according to the doctrines of Judaism, and whatever esle; that doesn't leave much room for counterfactual thought or humanism.

GeddyBass2112 · 03-27-2011, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schranz bass

That's because I am not hostile.

You're the one calling my religious beliefs 'nonsensical' and seem to think that anyone who is religious is also stupid.

View Poll Results: Your level of observance?
Non-practicing/secular form of religion	20	43.48%
A little observant	3	6.52%
Middle-of-the-road observance	11	23.91%
Strict adherence to religious rules	4	8.70%
Don't know	8	17.39%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll