Muslim Women

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 04-23-2011, 10:47 PM

So in France they have now officially banned the Burka. If a woman is to wear one she will be charged $500. Is this against their rights? Do these women have rights with or without burkas in Eastern countries? Do they know any better than what they've always lived in and been brought up to believe?

Do you think this is fair? Some may argue yes due to the ongoing threat of terrorism and the ability for suicide bombers to have anonymity by wearing these burkas. Others might say no as it is stereotyping those wearing burkas and is against their rights as a human being.

My next question is, do you think it is fair how Muslim women are treated by Muslim men? How much do you actually know of their culture? A lot of women appear to be very keen to wear burkas by respectfully covering up according to their faith, but is this really what religion dictates or is it what men want? From what I understand, men are considered too tempted by women who show flesh and cannot control their urges. Therefore the women must cover up either completely or only leave their face uncovered in order to not encourage men. This is partly due to the rule that a man may not be alone in a room with a woman unless he is wed to her.

I ask western men here, how would you feel about being in that situation where you cannot see the women you are to be with until after you've wed? In the west it is all based on dating and judgement on looks and personality but over there the couples have very little chance to get to know each other. In a nut shell, you will be marrying a stranger who you haven't seen apart from the face/eyes at most.

Now I may be slightly off in my understandings but have this knowledge from dating an arab man myself, which was not the easiest thing to do. I do realise that there will be another side to all this and it is hard to understand a situation without living through it yourself and it becoming personal.

djchameleon · 04-23-2011, 11:09 PM

I feel like Muslim women should move from France because it's not right but that's just the way it over there. It's not like if they tried to do something like that America that wouldn't be able to fly because we have the freedom of religion here.

There is a lot of the word fair being thrown around in your questions and life just isn't fair. Yes, I don't agree with most of what is going on or being said but it happens regardless.

The way that Muslim men treat has something to do with what the is in the Quran I believe.

I have a Muslim friend that is in my community group and he wouldn't answer the phone when he knows that a female is trying to call him. So she calls me to call him and ask if he's coming to a meeting.

I wouldn't mind that at all being in that situation of not being able to see her until wedding day. You know how she is as a person and get to know her more than just the surface. I kind of like it because it forces people to not be as superficial as they currently are.

The burka thing is not just what men dictates I believe it's in the Quran but I don't have the verses on hand to prove it to you. I'll have to do some research then get back to you on that one.

Thom Yorke · 04-23-2011, 11:18 PM

Quote:

So in France they have now officially banned the Burka. If a woman is to wear one she will be charged $500. Is this against their rights? Do these women have rights with or without burkas in Eastern countries? Do they know any better than what they've always lived in and been brought up to believe?

Major invasion of human rights to outlaw them entirely. Can't believe that passed to be honest. That being said, there are exceptions. I remember a case in Toronto years ago where a woman wouldn't take off her burka for a drivers liscence photo.

**Janszoon** · 04-23-2011, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Yorke

Major invasion of human rights to outlaw them entirely. Can't believe that passed to be honest. That being said, there are exceptions. I remember a case in Toronto years ago where a woman wouldn't take off her burka for a drivers liscence photo.

Exactly my opinion as well. They should certainly be allowed to wear them if they so desire but when it comes to things like driver's license photos, I'm sorry, but they need to show their face like everybody else.

Paedantic Basterd · 04-23-2011, 11:33 PM

I watched a documentary a while ago on the topic that was actually very eye opening. In summary, burkas are not worn out of shame, but to protect the female body from men. Similarly, it's not that the women are segregated, it's that the single men are.

At home amongst family and other women, they dress like any other woman in the Western world. It's merely men on the outside who are not permitted to view them.

This is obviously a Reader's Digest version of things, but essentially, I believe it's a cultural decision, and that France is violating these women's religious rights. If we're talking soley about the burka, I don't consider it a form of oppression based on what I know of it.

Mr November · 04-23-2011, 11:35 PM

How can we be talking about whether or not this is a violation of Muslim women's rights, when in muslim countries like Iran, women's rights are being violated in such an unquestionable fashion?

If you were a woman which rights would you rather see challenged? (If you are a woman... just ignore the first part... actually just in general as people, what's more important - you're right to wear certain religious clothing, or your right not to be hung for random **** just because of your gender or any other stupid reason? ) <- right bracket because I didn't forget that this was a bracket type dealio.

**Janszoon** · 04-23-2011, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman

How can we be talking about whether or not this is a violation of Muslim women's rights, when in muslim countries like Iran, women's rights are being violated in such an unquestionable fashion?

Because those are two different subjects.

djchameleon · 04-23-2011, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

This is obviously a Reader's Digest version of things, but essentially, I believe it's a cultural decision, and that France is violating these women's religious rights. If we're talking soley about the burka, I don't consider it a form of oppression based on what I know of it.

Anywhere else in the world yes France is violating their religious rights but i don't know France's history and what their laws are or w/e so for them to change this ruling and make it.

I believe it's fine for France to do it because that's how they choose to run their country. They probably don't have anything related to religious rights in their country. Maybe they do, I don't know.

Those women should just move to a different country that recognizes that people have the right to their own religion.

Thom Yorke · 04-23-2011, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

Those women should just move to a different country that recognizes that people have the right to their own religion.

Just get up and leave? Alot of them would have been living there for a very long time, and would have become citizens. Migrating is a major decision to make.

djchameleon · 04-24-2011, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Yorke

Just get up and leave? Alot of them would have been living there for a very long time, and would have become citizens. Migrating is a major decision to make.

Sure it is a big decision to make but if they respect their religious convictions then they would move instead of going against it and not wearing them.

04-23-2011, 10:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
Scarlett O'Hara Make it so Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,181	Muslim Women So in France they have now officially banned the Burka. If a woman is to wear one she will be charged $500. Is this against their rights? Do these women have rights with or without burkas in Eastern countries? Do they know any better than what they've always lived in and been brought up to believe? Do you think this is fair? Some may argue yes due to the ongoing threat of terrorism and the ability for suicide bombers to have anonymity by wearing these burkas. Others might say no as it is stereotyping those wearing burkas and is against their rights as a human being. My next question is, do you think it is fair how Muslim women are treated by Muslim men? How much do you actually know of their culture? A lot of women appear to be very keen to wear burkas by respectfully covering up according to their faith, but is this really what religion dictates or is it what men want? From what I understand, men are considered too tempted by women who show flesh and cannot control their urges. Therefore the women must cover up either completely or only leave their face uncovered in order to not encourage men. This is partly due to the rule that a man may not be alone in a room with a woman unless he is wed to her. I ask western men here, how would you feel about being in that situation where you cannot see the women you are to be with until after you've wed? In the west it is all based on dating and judgement on looks and personality but over there the couples have very little chance to get to know each other. In a nut shell, you will be marrying a stranger who you haven't seen apart from the face/eyes at most. Now I may be slightly off in my understandings but have this knowledge from dating an arab man myself, which was not the easiest thing to do. I do realise that there will be another side to all this and it is hard to understand a situation without living through it yourself and it becoming personal. __________________ "Elph is truly an enfant terrible of the forum, bless and curse him" - Marie, Queen of Thots

04-23-2011, 11:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	I watched a documentary a while ago on the topic that was actually very eye opening. In summary, burkas are not worn out of shame, but to protect the female body from men. Similarly, it's not that the women are segregated, it's that the single men are. At home amongst family and other women, they dress like any other woman in the Western world. It's merely men on the outside who are not permitted to view them. This is obviously a Reader's Digest version of things, but essentially, I believe it's a cultural decision, and that France is violating these women's religious rights. If we're talking soley about the burka, I don't consider it a form of oppression based on what I know of it.

04-23-2011, 11:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mr November Music Addict Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Halifax, Canada Posts: 429	How can we be talking about whether or not this is a violation of Muslim women's rights, when in muslim countries like Iran, women's rights are being violated in such an unquestionable fashion? If you were a woman which rights would you rather see challenged? (If you are a woman... just ignore the first part... actually just in general as people, what's more important - you're right to wear certain religious clothing, or your right not to be hung for random **** just because of your gender or any other stupid reason? ) <- right bracket because I didn't forget that this was a bracket type dealio.