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Old 05-02-2011, 12:53 AM   #211 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by captaincaptain View Post
The whole "God Bless America" saying nowadays is just that a saying. It wasn't even said at the end of political speeches until Nixon did it 38 years ago (at least in the States). Unless it's the song "God Bless America", I don't see it being religious or patriotic, more like kissing the baby at political rallies, it's for show.

Also, atheism has nothing to do with political affiliation.

Understanding Republican Atheists
Mostly what I've been saying all along.


And atheism has a bit to do with political affiliation. An atheist is definitely less likely to be a republican. Not defiantly not a republican... but surely less likely to be one.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:56 AM   #212 (permalink)
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I have to agree with Big3 on this one... why would he NOT say it? They ALWAYS say "God bless 'merica". Can you imagine the fallout there would be if he just completely disregarded that? Talk about a PR nightmare, the conservatives would tear him apart all the way up until election time. There are other agendas at work here other than religious ones, like how is Obama going to save his chances of being re-elected.
That's all well and good if he wants to ignore the Establishment Clause RVCA posted earlier which prohibits our government favoring a certain religion. Who cares that he's disregarding the amendments, so long as he wins over the voters.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:57 AM   #213 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captaincaptain View Post
The whole "God Bless America" saying nowadays is just that a saying. It wasn't even said at the end of political speeches until Nixon did it 38 years ago (at least in the States). Unless it's the song "God Bless America", I don't see it being religious or patriotic, more like kissing the baby at political rallies, it's for show.

Also, atheism has nothing to do with political affiliation.

Understanding Republican Atheists
Yeah well, go run for a national level political office as an atheist and let us know how many votes you get. There's a reason why politicians always spout about God and Christian propaganda... because that's what people want to hear. If you think that any politician ever says anything for any other reason, then you are completely out of touch.

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That's all well and good if he wants to ignore the Establishment Clause RVCA posted earlier which prohibits our government favoring a certain religion. Who cares that he's disregarding the amendments, so long as he wins over the voters.
That's basically what it boils down to. Like it or not, that's how you win elections.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:58 AM   #214 (permalink)
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I wonder what these Christians would say if he ended his speech with "Muhammad Bless America" to try and appeal to the Islamic people in America.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:59 AM   #215 (permalink)
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I remember reading once that atheists are not even permitted to run for office. Is there any truth to this, or am I mistaken?
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:03 AM   #216 (permalink)
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I remember reading once that atheists are not even permitted to run for office. Is there any truth to this, or am I mistaken?
They are permitted by law to run for office, but an atheist would never win.

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Here are the percentages of people saying they would refuse to vote for "a generally well-qualified person for president" on the basis of some characteristic; in parenthesis are the figures for earlier years:

Muslim: 38%
Gay: 37% (1978: 74%)
Atheist: 48%
Gallup Polls & Other Surveys on American Attitudes Towards Atheists - Over 40 Years of Research Show Atheists Are Despised, Distrusted

I find it quite remarkable that more people would vote for a Muslim or Gay candidate than an Atheist one.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:24 AM   #217 (permalink)
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I remember reading once that atheists are not even permitted to run for office. Is there any truth to this, or am I mistaken?

The only atheist in Congress.


Pete Stark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:05 AM   #218 (permalink)
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"Let us remember that we can do these things not just because of wealth or power, but because of who we are: one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

That's a phrase I could take exception to, personally, though I did like the rest of the speech. I have no problems with saying "God bless America", or even "God bless Ireland", to make it personal to me. I am happy for people to ask their god to look kindly upon my country, or indeed any country. I do however have a problem with any statement that my country would be a subject of any deity, as, being a citizen of my country, that would make me the subject of the same. I think that's the p[oint Jansz is making more than anything.

As for the subject itself: It is reassuring, in a sense, to see that they could finally track him down. It is a moral victory, but it is definitely not a tactical victory. It is telling that of all of my friends who have posted on facebook, it's the guy in the american army who has said that the death of Osama means little to him, as his friends will still be fighting and putting their lives at risk in Afghanistan. It is reason to be glad, because we know now that no matter how hard they make it, no matter how difficult it can be, we can track down anyone who masterminds the slaughter of that many people, but it is not a reason for celebration, because there is far too much still to be done, and I don't think Terrorism can ever be defeated by fighting fire with fire.

The day the Western world and the Muslim world reconcile their differences, and start moving forward to a brighter future, together, as parts of a unified whole, then I will celebrate, as that will be a victory worth shouting about.
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:29 AM   #219 (permalink)
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Well said ^

Also, according to the last press report I read, Bin Laden's body has been buried at sea.
And the report of one of the helicopter's having mechanical problems and later destroyed by the special services sounds all very wrong to me...
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:33 AM   #220 (permalink)
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I'm not celebrating someone's death, especially when I was 5 when the stuff happened and I'm not even American. But some people are saying I should be ashamed about this?
And isn't it a bit hypocritical for Obama to talk about god when he's celebrating killing someone? Which the bible tells you not to do?
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