Transgender in Disney

**Janszoon** · 01-22-2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanwllCorfe

If they come up with an interesting story about it, then sure. They shouldn't have to or anything, of course.

Bingo.

TheBig3 · 01-25-2012, 08:02 AM

I hear you sugar, I had this same argument with a transgendered person on a political forum I used to belong to. I think what Above is advocating for is proven by our (you and I) experiences.

I assumed sex and gender were the same thing because for the vast amount of the populace they are the same, and it never really comes up as to how they're different.

Paedantic Basterd · 01-25-2012, 10:29 AM

I think ideally, the words "male" and "female" would refer strictly to genitals and to no other qualities. I wonder if transgendered people would feel more "correct" in their bodies if there weren't any defined male/female stereotypes?

Above · 01-25-2012, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwwSugar

I don't want to tell you who you are or challenge you in a way that offends you, so let me know if I do. But isn't it your body parts that make you what gender you are?
You have boy parts, which make you a male. But in your mind, you feel like a female, and so you're changing yourself physically to wholly become a female?
Again, I don't want to offend you, and I'll have you know that I'm fully supportive of the transgendered community whether or not I understand how they feel.

Sex is your genitalia, gender is your identity. You can be female and still have male genitals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop

Could you please define diversity? And would this "respect" be for all moral, religious, and cultural traditions?

Of course. There already are classes like this. Religious Studies is a compulsory subject in English high school. As much as I am for transgender rights and I am very outspoken about such things, I don't want to put 'my kind' (for lack of a better phrase) 'on top'. We're all equal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

I think ideally, the words "male" and "female" would refer strictly to genitals and to no other qualities. I wonder if transgendered people would feel more "correct" in their bodies if there weren't any defined male/female stereotypes?

Sorta. For me, it's all discomfort with my sex organs, but it factors in with my relationships with both sexes. Whether I want to admit it or not, my sex affects how both sexes see me.

Arya Stark · 01-25-2012, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

I hear you sugar, I had this same argument with a transgendered person on a political forum I used to belong to. I think what Above is advocating for is proven by our (you and I) experiences.

I assumed sex and gender were the same thing because for the vast amount of the populace they are the same, and it never really comes up as to how they're different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

I think ideally, the words "male" and "female" would refer strictly to genitals and to no other qualities. I wonder if transgendered people would feel more "correct" in their bodies if there weren't any defined male/female stereotypes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Above

Sex is your genitalia, gender is your identity. You can be female and still have male genitals.

I guess that's the part that confuses me but is gender only what you feel because transgendered people say that's what they feel? Like I can understand feeling like you want to be a girl. But I can't understand saying you are a girl if you clearly have male parts. I guess my question is, why is gender different from sex? Well from looking it up, gender apparently has more to do with behaviour. So according to the definitions I found, you aren't a girl but you want to do girl things so you want the body parts to match the girl things you do.

So I guess if gender roles didn't exist, none of us would feel like boys or girls. We would be defined only by our body parts as male or female. So it wouldn't matter?

But if a girl feels like a boy and then behaves as a girl anyway, doesn't that make him a girl? Since gender depends on the roles given and the behaviour associated with it?

I'm literally just going by definitions and stuff here. I'm just confused as to why anyone should have to feel like anything. Is it because as a boy, you didn't want to act like a girl, and you instead would feel more comfortable to completely feel and physically be a girl?

Above · 01-28-2012, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwwSugar

Stuff

Nooooooo.

I'm pretty sure I'd be repeating myself if I explained but whatever. What's the harm in explaining another seven million times? Gender is as inborn as a bird's sense of flight. It's not about fitting girly stereotypes at all. Just like a cisgendered (a person happy with their assigned gender at birth) male has an inborn sense of being male. My very female identity is encoded in my head; it just doesn't match the outside... That's the source of my discomfort.

You can't know unless you've been there.

Paedantic Basterd · 01-25-2012, 10:55 AM

Should society strive to make characteristics of personality, thinking, and taste irrelevant (eliminate the stereotypes of gender, and free everyone to behave and dress as they please)? Or should we rather maintain the differences, but celebrate them equally?

crash_override · 01-25-2012, 11:04 AM

I mean I consider myself pretty libertarian and what not, but making transvestite themed movies directly aimed at children just seems effed-up to me. I mean kids have enough confusion growing up, does introducing the fact that they can change their gender that early offer any kind of support? I don't think so. Let them learn their bodies and then make a decision.

I will be honest, I went through a long phase that I wanted to be a girl. I was jealous of the power of having a vagina. No power on earth can ever upstage the vagina, it has been influencing men to do stupid **** since the beginning of time. But, after learning that being a sexy young man with some money can have the same effect on the women I was jealous of, that feeling drifted.

Lesson being, if transgender procedures had been pushed towards me at say, 15-17 years old, I may have done it... But now, there's no chance in hell.

Being a woman just means you're just a piece of meat waiting to get porked by a guy like me.

Wait for it...

Above · 01-25-2012, 11:06 AM

Well, I don't think people should have their personality, thinking, taste etc made irrelevant. That's a little too much like the concept of Newspeak for my liking. However, they should be challenged, and people should see gender roles for what they are.

Paedantic Basterd · 01-25-2012, 11:11 AM

Nah, I think you misunderstand what I mean when I refer to irrelevancy. I mean it strictly in the sense of how we define ourselves.

01-25-2012, 08:02 AM	#2 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,246	I hear you sugar, I had this same argument with a transgendered person on a political forum I used to belong to. I think what Above is advocating for is proven by our (you and I) experiences. I assumed sex and gender were the same thing because for the vast amount of the populace they are the same, and it never really comes up as to how they're different. __________________ I've moved to a new address

01-25-2012, 11:06 AM	#9 (permalink)
Above Oh my golly! Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: England Posts: 339	Well, I don't think people should have their personality, thinking, taste etc made irrelevant. That's a little too much like the concept of Newspeak for my liking. However, they should be challenged, and people should see gender roles for what they are. __________________ Be pure, Be vigilant, Behave

01-25-2012, 10:29 AM	#3 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	I think ideally, the words "male" and "female" would refer strictly to genitals and to no other qualities. I wonder if transgendered people would feel more "correct" in their bodies if there weren't any defined male/female stereotypes?

01-25-2012, 10:55 AM	#7 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	Should society strive to make characteristics of personality, thinking, and taste irrelevant (eliminate the stereotypes of gender, and free everyone to behave and dress as they please)? Or should we rather maintain the differences, but celebrate them equally?

01-25-2012, 11:11 AM	#10 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	Nah, I think you misunderstand what I mean when I refer to irrelevancy. I mean it strictly in the sense of how we define ourselves.