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Old 02-28-2012, 08:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
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What do people think of the rapid industrialization of food?

Cows standing in shit all day with infected utters producing milk with puss in it- as well as meat with bacteria in it- sure isn't nice to think about. Ecoli cases have skyrocketed and whatknot.

Personally I'm okay with high fructose corn syrup.
The technology behind a lot of new processed foods is still in a developing phase, it's experiencing "growing pains" if you will, and the science isn't totally sound yet. I look forward to a future with gigantic broccoli.

I think the idea of being "self sustaining" and everybody growing or eating locally would be a step backwards. It doesn't work within the high speed of modern society, and i don't think people could go back to eating seasonally, as in only eating strawberries in the summer or whatever.

I learned today that many third world nations won't accept U.S. food because it is deemed unsafe, and that U.K. in particular won't accept our milk. I learned this in class so chances are it's not true but it did get me thinking.

What are other's thoughts on the matter? Do you care/notice?
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Eh, I really don't care. I just switched to ovo-lacto vegetarianism (aside from wild game meat), however, mostly because I want to remain skinny and would rather continue smoking unfiltered cigarettes instead of doing chronic cardio.

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Cows standing in shit all day with infected utters producing milk with puss in it- as well as meat with bacteria in it- sure isn't nice to think about. Ecoli cases have skyrocketed and whatknot.
Eh? Dairy cows don't stand in one place all day - even if you meant to be using hyperbole, that's wildly inaccurate. A few basic facts illustrate why:

-for milk to be pumped, you need to create negative pressure, and because of the nature of dairy farming (people/animals going inside/outside constantly), a series of vacuum pumps is used to this effect. Most set ups use a series of individual pumps called pulsators at each stall. Meaning, if there was a significant amount of dirt, they would get clogged, and you wouldn't be able to pump ****. This is why you constantly hear pressure washers going.

-it wouldn't just be wildly expensive to have a cow contained to a milking stall, it'd be wildly inefficient.

-(1) if a cow has an infected teat, you don't put anything on that because (a), you'd risk further injuring an animal worth thousands, (b) it would go ape****, and dealing with an angry a 1,000+lb cow would be a time sink, (2) when you're dealing with a cow that has any suspected issues, the milk is pumped but it's dumped, (3) talk to any mother who breastfed regularly and you'll understand why it'd be cruel to NOT pump a cow with an infected teat. (edit: obviously, you just work around the infected teat)

But, hey, what the **** would I know? I've only worked in a dairy parlor.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop View Post
Eh, I really don't care. I just switched to ovo-lacto vegetarianism (aside from wild game meat), however, mostly because I want to remain skinny and would rather continue smoking unfiltered cigarettes instead of doing chronic cardio.



Eh? Dairy cows don't stand in one place all day - even if you meant to be using hyperbole, that's wildly inaccurate. A few basic facts illustrate why:

Quote:
-for milk to be pumped, you need to create negative pressure, and because of the nature of dairy farming (people/animals going inside/outside constantly), a series of vacuum pumps is used to this effect. Most set ups use a series of individual pumps called pulsators at each stall. Meaning, if there was a significant amount of dirt, they would get clogged, and you wouldn't be able to pump ****. This is why you constantly hear pressure washers going.
-it wouldn't just be wildly expensive to have a cow contained to a milking stall, it'd be wildly inefficient.

-(1) if a cow has an infected teat, you don't put anything on that because (a), you'd risk further injuring an animal worth thousands, (b) it would go ape****, and dealing with an angry a 1,000+lb cow would be a time sink, (2) when you're dealing with a cow that has any suspected issues, the milk is pumped but it's dumped, (3) talk to any mother who breastfed regularly and you'll understand why it'd be cruel to NOT pump a cow with an infected teat. (edit: obviously, you just work around the infected teat)

But, hey, what the **** would I know? I've only worked in a dairy parlor.
I'm talking about genetically engineered cows. These cows only live a life span of 3 to 4 years and almost all of them get infected utters.

They're pumped with rbgh, a growth hormone that is banned in every other nation in the world.

Were you working at a corporate farm?


Yeah, the slaughterhouses are much different then dairy houses I should have made that clear.

Last edited by Sparky; 02-28-2012 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
I'm talking about genetically engineered cows. These cows only live a life span of 3 to 4 years and almost all of them get infected utters.
They're pumped with rbgh, a growth hormone that is banned in every other nation in the world.
Source?




Quote:
Yeah, the slaughterhouses are much different then dairy houses I should have made that clear.
Sparky, why does it matter how the dairy was set up financially? Whether or not a farm is incorporated has nothing to do with how it’s run. Further, the implication that corporate farms are somehow antithetical or markedly different from family farms ignores that fact that many family farms ARE incorporated. What would you have, that farmers be banned from incorporating their business?

Regarding that video, talk about a hatchet job; here’s a list of some of the inaccuracies:
1) The notion that “big dairy” hires hit men. Really?
2) The “impact on family farms”…. What they’re discussing, poorly, is economies of scale. How on earth you’d get farmers from taking advantage of this is beyond me, but the other issue is the impact it’d have on food prices – which would be to dramatically increase them.
3) Family dairy farms are not just closing down because of economies scale; the nature of dairy farming is very rigorous – not many youths clamor for a life that involves waking up at dawn, working until sunset, and working year round with no time for vacation.
4) Economies of scale does not just apply to cow herd size but to technology as well; the differences between a traditional stall set up, small carousels, and large 30+ carousels should be obvious.
5) The organic dairy farmer says that corporate dairy farms are trying to be profitable. What farmer doesn’t try to be profitable and why is profit bad?
6) They don’t take into account that the organic dairy farmer actually has a financial interest in defaming these corporate farms. As do the small farmers who, of course, will take any and all opportunities to whine for legislation to protect (read: subsidize) them.
7) It ignores that corporate organic farms do exist.
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Ok. Fine.

In an effort to help this thread out- would you be willing to write some reasons as to why industrialized dairy farming is bad? If there are any.

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Source?
Milk: America’s Health Problem

and had to google hard to find something semi-legit looking like this. They say 5 1/2 years but thats pretty close still
http://www.fawc.org.uk/pdf/dcwelfar-091022.pdf
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:41 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm no expert, but as far as I know, there are some artificial hormones which are illegal in EU which are used in the US. I'm sure there are different rules and regulations for some other substances as well. I'm under the impression that the EU and Norway (not part of EU) where I live is more strict than US policy in general when it comes to stuff like that.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Ok. Fine.

In an effort to help this thread out- would you be willing to write some reasons as to why industrialized dairy farming is bad? If there are any.
Eh? In regards to public health, the possible negative effects are rather obvious.

-local water systems can be damaged, through both large concentration of feces and animals passing antibiotics.
-disease; cramped living quarters obviously make it easier for disease to be transmitted
-smell; a few tons of **** will stink.

In regards to quality of the product; there are competing studies on this issue. However, for most people, the difference is nihil; most bottlers don't produce their own milk, and most who produce their own milk do so with minor differences (no rBGH, glass bottling, etc). The real difference starts in regards to the expensive ****; the cows that are fed exclusively by grazing. If you go that route you get differences based on the breed of cow & what they're fed (etc.), and this difference is reflected both in nutritional data and taste.

The problem, however, is that these premium brands have a premium price; and just because the end result is superior doesn't mean the employees or cows are being treated well.

Now, in regards to how I feel emotionally; my fathers main business when I grew up was repairing dairy equipment, which he bought from his father, whose father had dairy cows, etc... further, ideologically, I am an agrarian. I truly wish we could have more small farms in this nation. However, the economy, the law, and - most importantly - the culture are against it. If you're an American and you want more people to stay in the family farm business, and to treat animals and the land with respect, I'd say the most important thing you can do is to stop ****ting on their culture and stop supporting people who do this.


Now, for a random point I must add because my former job is usually so irrelevant to this forum; did you all know that for dairy products to be considered kosher a Rabbi has to not only inspect the equipment and cattle before you milk (each & every time!), BUT has to be there while they milk? It's true; it's not uncommon for big operations to have a Rabbi living on the farm. This is why lots of smaller operations lack that circle K. However, thanks to the telecommunications revolution, they're just putting up what amounts to security cameras in dairy's..... weird ****.
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:12 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I think it's just the nature of things right now. I don't mind it all that much, because I know it keeps cost down. However Jamie Oliver did an interesting experiment on Food Revolution where he made high quality fast food, and still was able to keep it cheap. Not $1 double cheeseburgers cheap, but not at all expensive.

I am fortunate to live in a farming area, so I can get most everything fresh. Especially eggs. The egg farmer is literally about a thousand feet outside of my development. I can get vegetables, milk, etc. all within a couple miles from here. It's quite nice.
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Why the fuck isn't there a fast food chain in the U.S. that utilizes local ingredients? Sure, they couldn't be everywhere, but everywhere they did go would stimulate the local economy.

Five Guys burgers is like that, but I don't consider them a true fast food chain. They're just a franchise restaurant.
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:44 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Why the fuck isn't there a fast food chain in the U.S. that utilizes local ingredients? Sure, they couldn't be everywhere, but everywhere they did go would stimulate the local economy.
Exactly what I'd like to know. That was the premise for what Jamie Oliver did. He used local produce, local beef, local dairy, etc. He was able to make it affordable, so I don't understand why no one has done it yet.
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