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Old 11-02-2012, 08:40 AM   #101 (permalink)
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I'm not being pedantic. I'm saying that his "point" is completely meaningless if you think about it for half a second.
Completely meaningless to Lil Rease assaulting a girl? Totally, but that wasn't what I was arguing.
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:45 AM   #102 (permalink)
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Completely meaningless to Lil Rease assaulting a girl? Totally, but that wasn't what I was arguing.
Completely meaningless period. Though I appreciate your efforts to try and play the role of public defender for him, I'm sure it's not a pleasant job.
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:47 AM   #103 (permalink)
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Completely meaningless to Lil Rease assaulting a girl? Totally, but that wasn't what I was arguing.
Lil Rease is just being a little kid. Even I being immature know that I don't need to beat up a girl.
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:50 AM   #104 (permalink)
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Completely meaningless period. Though I appreciate your efforts to try and play the role of public defender for him, I'm sure it's not a pleasant job.
I'm really not being his "public defender". He just happens to have an unrelated point about the police. I only even brought it up because someone asked about it.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:02 AM   #105 (permalink)
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It has the potential to undermine society it such "pick[ing] on" goes against how that society is set up. All hierarchical societies are based on exploiting the weak, whether those within their own society (see slavery) or those without (see imperialism).

This is why notions that the Romans (or any other ancient civilization, really) had some sort of universal compassion is absurd. Consider that violence in these societies often had an economic role (such as in imperialism & slavery), as well as a cultural component - such as in the coliseum, for example.
The Romans started around 753 BC and we are now in 2012, man has come a long way in most aspects, so the above argument is redundant regarding the issues at hand. But I do guess the average Roman may well have had more human compassion than you.

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Of course democracies sanction violence against their own. How would you characterize what happens to prisoners as anything but violent? Or do people cease to be part of the population the moment they are incarcerated?
It's funny how I raised several focused points with you and the only response that you can think of, is violence by the state against prisoners! Also you seems to have the wrong end of the stick regarding incarceration as well, as it's is commonly known today especially in Europe, that prisons are more like holiday camps due to prisoner freedoms, reduced serving times and the leniency of the prison service. I guess if prisons were like in "Midnight Express" "Cool Hand Luke" and the "Shawshank Redemption" then you would have a point.

Of course prisoners don't cease to be part of the population once they are incarcerated.

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I'm really not being his "public defender". He just happens to have an unrelated point about the police. I only even brought it up because someone asked about it.
It's certainly great you being his public defender, but I doub't he appreciates it.
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If you can't deal with the fact that there are 6+ billion people in the world and none of them think exactly the same that's not my problem. Just deal with it yourself or make actual conversation. This isn't a court and I'm not some poet or prophet that needs everything I say to be analytically critiqued.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:34 PM   #106 (permalink)
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That's not really true since not all police carry guns. And even if they did, it still doesn't make calling the police an act of violence.
Certainly, our police over here don't carry guns --- except for the ARU (Armed Response Unit), and they're only for things like bankrobbers or IRA dissidents. I can't accept that calling the police in on a situation is seen as an act of violence. What's the alternative? Wade in yourself? Surely that's violence? Ignore it? Not violence, but surely not an acceptable response? I say, the police are paid to, and equipped for dealing with such situations, so calling them, when required, would be the most responsible thing.

What if someone's robbing your house and you get to a phone? Is it an act of violence if you call 999 (or in the case of you guys, 911)?
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:42 PM   #107 (permalink)
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Anyway, as to what power unarmed police have other than violence: I'm sure they're told to use violence as a last resort. Quite often, a calm authoritative voice and even a veiled threat like "You wouldn't want your family to know you're beating up your wife" or somesuch can have the desired effect. The police are experts in talking to and calming people; don't all have to have guns or be smashing people's heads against walls. This ain't TV land, and if the cops weren't able to do their job without resorting to violent methods we'd have a) a lot more hospital admissions and b) lots more people getting away with things because "we couldn't do anything to stop him". Doesn't happen, generally.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:52 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Anyway, as to what power unarmed police have other than violence: I'm sure they're told to use violence as a last resort.
But, the point is that they do have the right to use violence as a last resort. It's where all their authority rests on. When the police pull you over for a traffic violation, there is an understanding that if you don't stop they have the power to physically find a way to stop your car, and if you continue to resist, they can shoot you (or physically restrain you, which won't be done with a pillow fight). If they give you a ticket, you then have to show up in court. If you don't show up to court, they put out a warrant for you, and will then arrest you. If you resist, they can and will use violence to subdue you. In any conceivable situation, no matter how unlikely, ultimately they have the power of violence over you. If you a police officer steps on your foot, you can tell him to **** off, but you can't push him like you might be able to do to someone else, because you are then assaulting a police officer, and then you will be arrested, blah, blah, blah.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:52 AM   #109 (permalink)
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But, the point is that they do have the right to use violence as a last resort. It's where all their authority rests on. When the police pull you over for a traffic violation, there is an understanding that if you don't stop they have the power to physically find a way to stop your car, and if you continue to resist, they can shoot you (or physically restrain you, which won't be done with a pillow fight). If they give you a ticket, you then have to show up in court. If you don't show up to court, they put out a warrant for you, and will then arrest you. If you resist, they can and will use violence to subdue you. In any conceivable situation, no matter how unlikely, ultimately they have the power of violence over you. If you a police officer steps on your foot, you can tell him to **** off, but you can't push him like you might be able to do to someone else, because you are then assaulting a police officer, and then you will be arrested, blah, blah, blah.
So what do you propose, if enforcement measures were taken away from the Police in order to maintain the laws that society has made?
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If you can't deal with the fact that there are 6+ billion people in the world and none of them think exactly the same that's not my problem. Just deal with it yourself or make actual conversation. This isn't a court and I'm not some poet or prophet that needs everything I say to be analytically critiqued.
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:05 AM   #110 (permalink)
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What shows that? And since when are Detroit and New Orleans among the ten largest cities in the country?
Wiki and a few other lists. It shows those cities to be in the top ten PER CAPITA for murders. I don't recall saying they were the top ten largest. I didn't look up other crime data just MURDERS.
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