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Old 12-14-2012, 04:35 PM   #81 (permalink)
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I think we should just pray for/think of/cry for the children killed in this tragedy and leave the discussion about gun control for now. It's sort of taking over, which does I have to say sound a teeny bit disrespectful, or at least insensitive.

All I know is, it's not only the US. Anyone remember Norway last year? Isolated, sure, but it happened and it was a big event, a major tragedy. Then you had the politician stabbed in Sweden I think, and shootings in France. It does happen, but seems to be more prevalent in the USA.

Either way it's a terrible, pointless, senseless tragedy and if there is a god, then you have to hope there's a devil too, and that he's currently "welcoming" the shooter ....

What a world! Now some families will never see Christmas in the same way ever again. Makes ya weep, seriously.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:48 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Disrespectful to who? Unless someone who uses this forum was a victim or knows a victim, I fail to see how it's disrespectful to discuss gun control in a thread about a mass shooting.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:51 PM   #83 (permalink)
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According to gun policy.org, Russia averages around 9 guns per 100 people. America averages an astounding 88 guns per 100 people. In 2009, Russia's homicide total was over 20,000. America's was around 14,000. Pretty interesting numbers, especially when you consider America has more than twice as many people as Russia.
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:12 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Imagine a world without a single gun in it and tell me if anyone really thinks acts of violence like this would cease to exist? To even say that it would lesson the potential by any minute percentage is ridiculous. In a perfect world we all Co exist in peace love and harmony but the fact of the matter is here in the real world that's nothing more than a fantasy. This is a tragic nauseating event that occurred, and the scariest thing about it is that its always looming in the deepest of unseen trenches of societies split personality that we call life.

My heart does go out to these victims and their families and hope in time they can find comfort. I'm rarely this passionate about something but this is truly disturbing and again scary.
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:22 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Imagine a world without a single gun in it and tell me if anyone really thinks acts of violence like this would cease to exist? To even say that it would lesson the potential by any minute percentage is ridiculous.
Well, blastingas10 just posted a story about a guy who attacked a whole bunch of kids at a school in China but luckily none of them were killed because he only had a knife instead of a gun. I'd imagine a similar situation would have unfolded with this guy in Connecticut if his only weapon had been a knife as well. I don't think anyone believes stricter gun laws will make people less violent per se, just that it will make it harder for them to kill each other.
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:25 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Well, blastingas10 just posted a story about a guy who attacked a whole bunch of kids at a school in China but luckily none of them were killed because he only had a knife instead of a gun. I'd imagine a similar situation would have unfolded with this guy in Connecticut if his only weapon had been a knife as well. I don't think anyone believes stricter gun laws will make people less violent per se, just that it will make it harder for them to kill each other.


Russia has disproven that.
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:26 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Russia has disproven that.
How so? Do you think the murder rate in Russia would go down if more guns were added to the equation?
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:27 PM   #88 (permalink)
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I think Russia practically being run by gangsters might have something to do with it being so high.
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:30 PM   #89 (permalink)
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This is American arrogance at its finest. What makes you think anyone deserves to have a gun? Because it's in the constitution? This is a device designed to kill people. If we are talking personal protection, there are plenty of effective non lethal alternatives these days.

I really apologize if this comes off like I'm attacking you...I'm not calling you arrogant, just the idea itself. I just really can't help feeling empathy for all these people anytime something like this happens...it really pisses me off just because of how pointless it all is.
The problem is that if law-abiding citizens can't get access to guns, then they can't protect themselves from those who obtain guns illegally.
People seem to think that the moment guns are deemed illegal, they suddenly disappear from existence and criminals go "Oh well. Guess I'll just straighten out my act now that I can't get a gun!"

It's not about deserving a gun. It's about deserving a fighting chance in a world where it's impossible to level the playing field. And beyond that, it's about being able to protect yourself and your family even if the criminal doesn't have a gun. A person can't be expected to physically overpower a threat in all situations, nor should they be mandated to do so when the opposing force is not playing by the same rules. All that creates is a higher potential for victimization.

Also, a lot of crime is likely dissuaded by the deterrent factor of guns alone. Now add to the equation the absolute certainty that no law-abiding citizen owns a gun and it's not hard to see how a criminal would be emboldened with the knowledge that, for instance, the home he's about to invade has nothing more deadly than a fireplace poker.

Obviously, guns = gun violence. That's the toughest part of all this because it means that to reduce (we will never eliminate) gun violence against innocent, law abiding citizens by removing guns from the equation, we have to simultaneously decrease their ability to protect themselves in the most effective way.
If you ask me whether it's worth it, I gotta say no, because it is quite literally the restriction of the very basic human right to protect yourself. This obviously wouldn't be an issue if there were no such thing as guns, but there are, and they're not going anywhere regardless of what America legislates.

This is the core of the value (most of the people I know) place in the constitutionality of gun ownership. It has nothing to do with the fact that it's on a founding document. That would be asinine. It has to do with the fact that the document legally recognizes the right of people to use arms to protect themselves from those who would oppress them. Now, in context with today's world, that really translates to protecting yourself from those abusing their power over you violently, thus, those with whatever means required that effectively limits your chance of not having their will violently and oppressively forced upon you at risk of your safety.
I do not understand how there are actually people out there that think we enjoy this right simply because a piece of paper says so. People on both sides of that are idiots. It's important because it limits the ability of government to take away the ability of innocent people to protect their own lives and those of their families. This is not something that should ever be taken away, regardless of the statistics, and to suggest otherwise is both ignorant and naive if people actually think that's a good thing because less school shootings turn up as a result of such a thing.

The real question is why there wasn't an armed guard at the school, or why we don't protect our children's schools with them as a default. I bet if there had been one and he had prevented this, there would be a lot of "hero" and "thanks" phrases being thrown around by a bunch of the same people that lobby against guns to begin with. People protecting other people with guns usually doesn't get reported very often, though, so I don't expect most people to come across something like that often enough to adjust their biases enough to see through a different lens.
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:32 PM   #90 (permalink)
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I think Russia practically being run by gangsters might have something to do with it being so high.
And I bet those gangsters have guns, or at the very least, know that most potential victims probably won't.
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