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Old 02-28-2013, 01:23 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Theory is always a part of science as well. When you start applying that theory to the meaning of life it becomes a philosophy, not a science. It's important to distinguish the two. When you then start blocking off other theories and eliminate the mystery of life it becomes a religion.

Most people need a religion because the vastness of the universe is too much. You strike me as a person who is willing to explore that. Don't block yourself off. Form your own beliefs but always question them. So you have this theory you have been talking about in this thread...it makes you a bit apathetic and it's clearly killing some of beauty of life. You can't stop there, break past it. I've gone through moments when I feel the same way...just keep learning. Eventually you'll be forced to make a new theory and that will inform beliefs that won't be so easy to boil down in the way that you are now.
Well that's what this is for, to put my theory forward and give dissenters an opportunity to speak up,

though aside from Fred and the other guy there hasn't been much disagreement. And I like Fred but he seems more intent on holding onto the illusion of control than anything else.

Still waiting to hear your opinion on the topic though
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:37 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Well that's what this is for, to put my theory forward and give dissenters an opportunity to speak up,

though aside from Fred and the other guy there hasn't been much disagreement. And I like Fred but he seems more intent on holding onto the illusion of control than anything else.

Still waiting to hear your opinion on the topic though
I agree our actions can be boiled down to one thing: survival. From there I feel there are two types of people: those who care only about their own individual survival and those that care for the survival of humans or life in general. You can see this fundamental difference in politics. Altruism would then be real in the sense that it defines the actions of latter group.

Now, you can stop there and then I agree with you...that seems really shallow and our actions are ultimately inconsequential. But if you just ask why it gets a little less clear. Why survive? Why is there a persistence towards life? Why have we evolved to ensure that we act in such a way that we can survive?
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:42 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Well that's what this is for, to put my theory forward and give dissenters an opportunity to speak up,

though aside from Fred and the other guy there hasn't been much disagreement. And I like Fred but he seems more intent on holding onto the illusion of control than anything else.

Still waiting to hear your opinion on the topic though
I wouldn't call it an illusion. We just seem to disagree on this notion. Your alright Tuna, I've enjoyed the banter from the recent thread creations. The great thing is nobody has to be right and I think we can agree on that and still carry a conversation which is always fun.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:47 PM   #54 (permalink)
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I've enjoyed the banter from the recent thread creations.
Evolution at work.

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Old 02-28-2013, 01:59 PM   #55 (permalink)
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I agree our actions can be boiled down to one thing: survival. From there I feel there are two types of people: those who care only about their own individual survival and those that care for the survival of humans or life in general. You can see this fundamental difference in politics. Altruism would then be real in the sense that it defines the actions of latter group.

Now, you can stop there and then I agree with you...that seems really shallow and our actions are ultimately inconsequential. But if you just ask why it gets a little less clear. Why survive? Why is there a persistence towards life? Why have we evolved to ensure that we act in such a way that we can survive?
Good questions indeed, ones that I don't even think we're close to answering. I guess that's where God comes into the equation. The simplest explanation for us would be attributing the unexplainable to a force that has a markedly similar train of though to our own, that an external hand set the course of life in motion. It most simply explains life and all it's goals, but we can't do more than speculate right? The only way we know how, by relating to theories. We humans set goals, keeping life alive with instincts seems almost a goal, it explains why people would look to something else with a thinking capacity to set in motion life

Or the more likely explanation to me is that the cause exists outside our train of logic and may be something we're not even capable of comprehending.
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:00 PM   #56 (permalink)
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I wouldn't call it an illusion. We just seem to disagree on this notion. Your alright Tuna, I've enjoyed the banter from the recent thread creations. The great thing is nobody has to be right and I think we can agree on that and still carry a conversation which is always fun.
Indeed. Agree to disagree my friend
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Old 03-02-2013, 12:55 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Would you not accept that we also do these things (tipping, opening doors for ladies, helping people etc) because we were taught by our parents that it's the right thing to do? In that sense, heredity has a lot to do with it. Plus, it does make you feel good. I know if I pass a beggar and don't throw him/her some money I feel bad about it, sometimes to the point where I'll go back and redress the situation.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:18 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Is that I've come to realize that none of our actions have deeper meaning beside being the most logical decision at a certain time and place. For instance, there is no such thing as a purely selfless act. Everything we do is in our own interest, for our own survival and/or complacency. You could boil it down to semantics or definitives, but words like 'altruism' have no basis in reality.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:35 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Would you not accept that we also do these things (tipping, opening doors for ladies, helping people etc) because we were taught by our parents that it's the right thing to do? In that sense, heredity has a lot to do with it. Plus, it does make you feel good. I know if I pass a beggar and don't throw him/her some money I feel bad about it, sometimes to the point where I'll go back and redress the situation.
But I think our, or at least my, point is that behind that is a purely utilitarian purpose. Altruism is not so much a lie, but our perception of it is simplistic and doesn't reflect reality.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:19 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Is that I've come to realize that none of our actions have deeper meaning beside being the most logical decision at a certain time and place. For instance, there is no such thing as a purely selfless act. Everything we do is in our own interest, for our own survival and/or complacency. You could boil it down to semantics or definitives, but words like 'altruism' have no basis in reality.
That...what...science? Science isn't a THING that....what? Science?

Anyway.

Of course we act in our self interest (or at least no act is purely selfless), we experience the universe and interact with it *ahem* "through ourselves" so it is literally the only way to act within it.

But I prefer people whose "selfish" acts are those that sometimes help others though.
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