The many benefits of a child-free life

FETCHER. · 11-24-2013, 06:41 PM

About life being suffering... Such true words but the strongest, most determined and driven people I've ever met have always had a whole load of **** thrown at them that they shouldn't have ever had to deal with.

Not saying it is always the case but what is for you will not go by you.

GuD · 11-24-2013, 08:11 PM

Life is more than suffering though. It's definitely a struggle, for some more than others by a metric ass-ton but there's a lot out there to enjoy too. I'm just gonna guess and say most of us are from relatively well-off parts of the world where there's more or less an equal opportunity for a happy, comfortable life.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 11-24-2013, 11:59 PM

Without life this universe would be nothing more than floating clumps of elements circling each other. And without suffering life would not be possible.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 11-25-2013, 12:31 AM

I know what you are saying, but there are so many races, cultures and ideas about how children should be raised. And not everyone has the same ideas about what is and isn't positive. In a perfect world sure.

WWWP · 11-25-2013, 01:27 AM

You guys are assigning a different connotation to the word suffering than what I intended. Again, apologies for not making myself clear.

When I say existence is suffering, I don't mean suffering in the sense that sometimes bad things happen. When you are hungry, that is a form of suffering. When you are thirsty, tired, cold, sick, etc etc etc, all of that is a very basic and unavoidable suffering inherent to the existence of sentient beings. The negative things that happen throughout the experience of a sentient being are merely piled on top of that initial suffering.

The only possible way to keep a being from suffering is to not bring the being into existence.

GuD · 11-25-2013, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junkyard Donner

You guys are assigning a different connotation to the word suffering than what I intended. Again, apologies for not making myself clear.

When I say existence is suffering, I don't mean suffering in the sense that sometimes bad things happen. When you are hungry, that is a form of suffering. When you are thirsty, tired, cold, sick, etc etc etc, all of that is a very basic and unavoidable suffering inherent to the existence of sentient beings. The negative things that happen throughout the experience of a sentient being are merely piled on top of that initial suffering.

The only possible way to keep a being from suffering is to not bring the being into existence.

Do you think that because you have to struggle and deal with being sick sometimes your parents shouldn't have had you?

There are people out there who I'm sure have had to deal with far worse than you or I who are grateful for every day that they are alive. There's also people who struggle and become very unhappy. It's a risk, sure, but we do our best and I'd venture to say the pros significantly outweigh the cons when it comes to "people" and being alive. Really, the only argument against a capable family having a child I can understand is the threat of overpopulation. Maybe not in the 2000s or even 2100s but one day the world will stop being able to host the human species and who knows what will happen then.

Sequoioideae · 11-25-2013, 01:57 AM

For the most part I dislike kids, but if I ever had that one in a million kid that was smart as ****, and did amazing things I would have no complaints. My problem is this, I suffer from various mental problems that I received from my mother, and I have a history of cancer. When I was a kid, I was probably the worst child imaginable, and I really was awful. I like myself a lot more now, but my negative childhood has affected my personal being today. I don't want any kid to go through some of the **** I had to go through, especially if genetics are put into play. I wouldn't mind experiencing another aspect of life though, and I feel like having a kid would open new areas of experience and wisdom. Children have this natural curiosity and approach to problems that I'm almost envious of, it's like re learning something from someone with a fresh point of view, and you end up seeing things in new ways, whether it was intentional or not.

Sequoioideae · 11-25-2013, 03:14 AM

Steph is a Buddhist, where ur shaved head and robes?

djchameleon · 11-25-2013, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sequoioideae

Steph is a Buddhist, where ur shaved head and robes?

Either she is a Buddhist or chronically depressed.

WWWP · 11-25-2013, 12:58 PM

Right. It's a very logical philosophical position in my opinion, but I am reminded over and over again that people don't want to hear it. I'm just going to leave these here and see my way out of this thread.

Quote:

“We infrequently contemplate the harms that await any new-born child—pain, disappointment, anxiety, grief, and death. For any given child we cannot predict what form these harms will take or how severe they will be, but we can be sure that at least some of them will occur. None of this befalls the nonexistent. Only existers suffer harm.”

Quote:

“It is unlikely that many people will take to heart the conclusion that coming into existence is always a harm. It is even less likely that many people will stop having children. By contrast, it is quite likely that my views either will be ignored or will be dismissed. As this response will account for a great deal of suffering between now and the demise of humanity, it cannot plausibly be thought of as philanthropic. That is not to say that it is motivated by any malice towards humans, but it does result from a self-deceptive indifference to the harm of coming into existence.”

Quote:

“Finally, the optimist’s impatience with or condemnation of pessimism often has a smug macho tone to it (although males have no monopoly of it). There is a scorn for the perceived weakness of the pessimist who should instead ‘grin and bear it’. This view is defective for the same reason that macho views about other kinds of suffering are defective. It is an indifference to or inappropriate denial of suffering, whether one’s own or that of others. The injunction to ‘look on the bright side’ should be greeted with a large dose of both scepticism and cynicism. To insist that the bright side is always the right side is to put ideology before the evidence. Every cloud, to change metaphors, may have a silver lining, but it may very often be the cloud rather than the lining on which one should focus if one is to avoid being drenched by self-deception. Cheery optimists have a much less realistic view of themselves than do those who are depressed.”

― David Benatar, Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming Into Existence

View Poll Results: How do you plead?
I'm a parent	11	17.74%
I'm a child-free woman/man	24	38.71%
I want to have kids someday (please explain)	18	29.03%
I'm undecided	9	14.52%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

11-24-2013, 08:11 PM	#2 (permalink)
GuD Dude... What? Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,322	Life is more than suffering though. It's definitely a struggle, for some more than others by a metric ass-ton but there's a lot out there to enjoy too. I'm just gonna guess and say most of us are from relatively well-off parts of the world where there's more or less an equal opportunity for a happy, comfortable life. __________________ I spit bullets in my feet Every time I speak So I write instead And still people want me dead ~msc

11-25-2013, 12:31 AM	#4 (permalink)
Scarlett O'Hara Make it so Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,775	I know what you are saying, but there are so many races, cultures and ideas about how children should be raised. And not everyone has the same ideas about what is and isn't positive. In a perfect world sure. __________________ "Elph is truly an enfant terrible of the forum, bless and curse him" - Marie, Queen of Thots

11-24-2013, 11:59 PM	#3 (permalink)
~~John Wilkes Booth~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2,235	Without life this universe would be nothing more than floating clumps of elements circling each other. And without suffering life would not be possible.