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View Poll Results: Do you like socialism? (explain reasons in thread)
Yes 17 58.62%
No 11 37.93%
I'm confused 1 3.45%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-01-2020, 06:46 PM   #351 (permalink)
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I’m a full on fascist. I don’t even give a **** about making sense.

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Old 07-01-2020, 06:51 PM   #352 (permalink)
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Yeah, and then they got Francisco Franco, who was diet fascist.

But ok... we will see what happens I suppose.
You do realize that it was a civil war, correct? As in more than one faction? As in Catalonian socialism didn't evolve into Franco?
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 07-01-2020, 07:36 PM   #353 (permalink)
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You do realize that it was a civil war, correct? As in more than one faction? As in Catalonian socialism didn't evolve into Franco?
Yes, but Franco's faction was the one that ultimately won due to their alliance with the Falangists, monarchists, catholics, etc.

I can see the same thing happening here. Just because some of the millennials and Gen Z want socialism doesn't mean that the rest of the groups within American society won't react to crush it with the help of big businesses like Amazon, Comcast, and others that have an extreme amount to lose if socialism became the flavor of the week.


I don't understand why this concern of mine is so difficult to understand but it probably has a lot to do with wishful thinking and pie-in-the-sky idealized visions of utopia; wherein these two generations will take to the streets with their pink pussy hats, crust punk wardrobes, and hammer and sickle flags & the people in power will just voluntarily say "Oh they hate us, we had better step aside and let them have their socialism"

With the stranglehold that the 0.01% has on the American information infrastructure I can easily see them reacting by saying "Ok, we'll have socialism" and then you'll just have a form of fascism that will be called socialism... just like how the USSR was apparently "state capitalism" but called themselves socialist.

It's wishful thinking at best, horribly naive at it's worst and the groupthink doesn't surprise me at all with having dealt with DSA in the past when I actually believed socialism was a viable future & then the reality was that nobody can agree on anything aside from the need for ever increasing virtue signals to "marginalized groups" (that they all somehow manage to fall into, despite being uniformly white and upper middle class)
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Old 07-01-2020, 07:42 PM   #354 (permalink)
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Why do people with the most generic ideas possible accuse others of group thinking?
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Old 07-01-2020, 07:51 PM   #355 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MidnightRambler View Post
Yes, but Franco's faction was the one that ultimately won due to their alliance with the Falangists, monarchists, catholics, etc.

I can see the same thing happening here. Just because some of the millennials and Gen Z want socialism doesn't mean that the rest of the groups within American society won't react to crush it with the help of big businesses like Amazon, Comcast, and others that have an extreme amount to lose if socialism became the flavor of the week.


I don't understand why this concern of mine is so difficult to understand but it probably has a lot to do with wishful thinking and pie-in-the-sky idealized visions of utopia; wherein these two generations will take to the streets with their pink pussy hats, crust punk wardrobes, and hammer and sickle flags & the people in power will just voluntarily say "Oh they hate us, we had better step aside and let them have their socialism"

With the stranglehold that the 0.01% has on the American information infrastructure I can easily see them reacting by saying "Ok, we'll have socialism" and then you'll just have a form of fascism that will be called socialism... just like how the USSR was apparently "state capitalism" but called themselves socialist.

It's wishful thinking at best, horribly naive at it's worst and the groupthink doesn't surprise me at all with having dealt with DSA in the past when I actually believed socialism was a viable future & then the reality was that nobody can agree on anything aside from the need for ever increasing virtue signals to "marginalized groups" (that they all somehow manage to fall into, despite being uniformly white and upper middle class)
That... isn't at all how authoritarian socialism happens. It isn't ever how its happened. It's either been a violent revolution or a post-WW2 dickwaving contest between America and Russia.

I don't think anyone truly believes that marching in the street will result in true socialism since they're well aware the power that the establishment has and that they won't give it up short of violent revolution with their heads on spikes. They're either just satisfied with or willing to settle for something more along the lines of Sweden or Denmark which are far less ****ty than America.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 07-01-2020, 07:57 PM   #356 (permalink)
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It was so much an "alternative model of socialism" that it wasn't socialism at all.
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Old 07-01-2020, 07:59 PM   #357 (permalink)
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It was so much an "alternative model of socialism" that it wasn't socialism at all.
Social lite.
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I’m a full on fascist. I don’t even give a **** about making sense.

Do you have a black truck?
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Old 07-01-2020, 08:18 PM   #358 (permalink)
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They're either just satisfied with or willing to settle for something more along the lines of Sweden or Denmark which are far less ****ty than America.
I'll take Sweden if all the furniture is by IKEA and we get those delicious meatballs in the gravy...

But there absolutely is a lot in this country that needs to change. I'm not arguing against that, but any change that's going to occur needs to be beyond meaningless gestures and virtue signals that make white upper-middle class post graduates feel like "allies" to "marginalized groups".

We could start by ending all of these stupid multi-decade wars. I really think that would be the most meaningful first step, and then after that we can rebuild the country's decaying infrastructure, including heavily investing in free or inexpensive public transportation (I'd personally like to see monorails) to the point where it would cause a significant reduction in personal vehicles: that's one big financial liability gone for a lot of people living at the poverty line & less black trucks on the road.

Those are two things we could just do. One tomorrow and one by the end of the next five or so years depending on how well we mobilize for it.
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Old 07-01-2020, 08:20 PM   #359 (permalink)
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Old 07-01-2020, 08:21 PM   #360 (permalink)
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Social lite.
Yeah, tell that to the PSOE members that were jailed, exiled or executed under Franco.
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