donald trump 4 prez

OccultHawk · 03-21-2016, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Can we just assume that anything that sounds like the ravings of a supervillain is probably just a campaign promise that he's going to either weasel out of, or try to implement, fully aware that it will fail, and then blame it on the Democrats?

There's plenty to not like about Trump, but the whole wall thing, and banning Muslims, can almost certainly be shrugged off as bluster. It's not like we really have to start preparing counterarguments to shut this down when the time comes, since these ideas are so ludicrous that they'll shut themselves down anyway.

Hopefully. But not even our system of checks and balances is immune to totalitarianism and fascism. We have to be vigilant and learn from history. We shouldn't be so arrogant that we laugh everything off because it could never happen here. It could happen here. I know that people will think that's alarmist and that people who are concerned about this are getting carried away but I don't think these people with such nonchalance are as clever as they think they are. Very bad things do happen. Let's not make ourselves more vulnerable than we need to be.

**Frownland** · 03-21-2016, 03:15 PM

Also, simply based on the way that his own country is reacting to him, he could start some serious wars, and in turn create a nice opportunity to snatch up rights of his own people and lean more towards fascism.

OccultHawk · 03-21-2016, 03:18 PM

No doubt. And if there's one thing Americans like to buy, it's war.

Paul Smeenus · 03-21-2016, 03:22 PM

^ I like what Frownie and OK are saying here

The Batlord · 03-21-2016, 03:38 PM

There are certainly parallels between America's current political climate and mid-1900's Europe (economic weakness, perceived cultural threats from minorities, which led to reactionary politicians with strongman rhetoric), but the difference is that the economic collapse in Germany and Italy during the Great Depression was far worse, not only in general, but even compared to the US at the time. The mark was so devalued that Germans couldn't even buy bread with it. The economic and political climate simply is not nearly as extreme now as it was then, and it's not looking to tank as hard in the future either.

Just as importantly was that those countries had almost no history as democracies, and had been ruled by monarchs for pretty much their entire history, so they were much more welcoming of another dictator, whereas America has never been directly ruled by a monarch, and has over two centuries of history as a democracy. Human beings in general are susceptible to being ruled like sheep by powerful leaders, but representative government is simply too ingrained in America's culture for anything less than a complete economic and political catastrophe to change that. And that is not the case.

Who knows what might happen in the future, but I don't see anything like fascism as a legitimate threat. I certainly can see charismatic demagogues like Trump gaining more prominence in American politics, due to the somewhat similar political climate to pre-fascist Europe, but the degree will be much less, and the consequences far less severe.

So yeah, I do see your concerns as at least partially alarmist.

Chula Vista · 03-21-2016, 04:37 PM

Thing is, if he does win the GOP nomination, he's not going to win the black vote, the Hispanic vote, the Asian vote, the progressive minded younger vote, and not even the majority of the on the fence vote.

He'll get votes from all of the Wonder Bread White angry folks. Fortunately they are not enough to win an election.

There's millions of people watching all of this **** go down on TV and YouTube from their homes who at the end of the day will never let that buffoon get control of the red buttons.

But ya, it's a Barnum and Bailey cycle for sure this year. And we wonder why the aliens have no interest in us?

**Goofle** · 03-21-2016, 04:46 PM

Yeah, poor white people should wise up and vote for Bernie. You know, the guy who said they don't know what it's like to be poor. He definitely represents their interests.

You're really missing what has made Trump popular.

Chula Vista · 03-21-2016, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofle

Yeah, poor white people should wise up and vote for Bernie. You know, the guy who said they don't know what it's like to be poor. He definitely represents their interests.

You're really missing what has made Trump popular.

Never used the word poor. I'm totally getting what has made Trump a rock star.

Don't patronize man.

**Goofle** · 03-21-2016, 04:53 PM

Don't patronize yourself then dude.

OccultHawk · 03-21-2016, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

There are certainly parallels between America's current political climate and mid-1900's Europe (economic weakness, perceived cultural threats from minorities, which led to reactionary politicians with strongman rhetoric), but the difference is that the economic collapse in Germany and Italy during the Great Depression was far worse, not only in general, but even compared to the US at the time. The mark was so devalued that Germans couldn't even buy bread with it. The economic and political climate simply is not nearly as extreme now as it was then, and it's not looking to tank as hard in the future either.

Just as importantly was that those countries had almost no history as democracies, and had been ruled by monarchs for pretty much their entire history, so they were much more welcoming of another dictator, whereas America has never been directly ruled by a monarch, and has over two centuries of history as a democracy. Human beings in general are susceptible to being ruled like sheep by powerful leaders, but representative government is simply too ingrained in America's culture for anything less than a complete economic and political catastrophe to change that. And that is not the case.

Who knows what might happen in the future, but I don't see anything like fascism as a legitimate threat. I certainly can see charismatic demagogues like Trump gaining more prominence in American politics, due to the somewhat similar political climate to pre-fascist Europe, but the degree will be much less, and the consequences far less severe.

So yeah, I do see your concerns as at least partially alarmist.

Good points and obviously very well-written. I will say that the situations don't have to be identical to be dangerous. I'm obviously more concerned about it than you but you don't seem to be completely writing off my perspective, either.

Suppose we were hit by Islamic terrorism on a 9/11 scale or even more disastrous? What if it happened twice? Think how much more sway Trump's rhetoric could have. I'm certain ISIS wants Trump in power.

View Poll Results: can he do it?
yes	23	52.27%
yea	21	47.73%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

03-21-2016, 03:15 PM	#972 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,548	Also, simply based on the way that his own country is reacting to him, he could start some serious wars, and in turn create a nice opportunity to snatch up rights of his own people and lean more towards fascism. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

03-21-2016, 04:37 PM	#976 (permalink)
Chula Vista Toasted Poster Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SoCal by way of Boston Posts: 11,332	Thing is, if he does win the GOP nomination, he's not going to win the black vote, the Hispanic vote, the Asian vote, the progressive minded younger vote, and not even the majority of the on the fence vote. He'll get votes from all of the Wonder Bread White angry folks. Fortunately they are not enough to win an election. There's millions of people watching all of this **** go down on TV and YouTube from their homes who at the end of the day will never let that buffoon get control of the red buttons. But ya, it's a Barnum and Bailey cycle for sure this year. And we wonder why the aliens have no interest in us? __________________ “The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

03-21-2016, 03:18 PM	#973 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	No doubt. And if there's one thing Americans like to buy, it's war.