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Old 05-17-2006, 01:30 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Prez and Tech

I'm just bored, so I'm gon put this out. Maybe someone can offer other views here. But as much as Prez and Tech are quoted among underground hip-hop heads as positive alternatives, I honestly can't stand either one. It's not that I hate all rap, either. I like artists like 2Pac, Sage Francis, The Coup, and Esham. I just can't get where Prez or Tech are coming from. Here's why:


Immortal Technique- I just really disagree with this guy too often. I'm personally not really liberal or conservative, but I have some views on each side. His stance on illegal immigration, is one thing I don't agree with (link). Caesar Chavez, LAIR, and many LEGAL Hispanic-Americans oppose illegal immigration, too. Are they "racist" against their own people? Please. For those who do it legal, it's hard work and about a 4 year process, versus some random guy who jumps a gate and runs and makes it a 10 hour thing. It's a political and legal issue, not race. Some Minutemen patrol the Canadian borders also. But, it's simply not as big of a problem as the MILLIONS hopping the Mexican border. Also, him saying this:

"As for homophobia, Hip Hop never embraced f@ggots. One can’t deny that there are probably rappers, DJ's and fans that are mo's but I think since the culture was based around proving ones manhood; acting like a fruitpop isn’t gonna get you anywhere."

The idea that all g@y people act a certain way is a false generalization portrayed by the media. It's not so much that he hates g@y people that I care about. I could care less. Free speech. Hate whomever. But, would my opinion still be taken seriously if I made a sweeping generalization about black people and said this?:

"as for racism, prog-rock has never embraced n**gers. Since the genre is based around philosophy and intellect, acting like a retarded drugdealin thug wannabe isn't gonna get you anywhere"

He knows nothing of this issue, if he's using such generalizations, and he's too ill-informed on this sh!t, to be influencing young stupid kids and encouraging this whole g@ys are less than people mentality. So the anti-g@y thing, and adding fuel to the fire for the protester supporters to turn this illegal issue into a race issue. 2 BIG things I don't like thats are a big part of his current message or image. And many kids wanna buy into that sh!t, which he's also making look cool. I'm not classist, either. We have poor of our own to worry about across all racial lines and backgrounds. I just think the illegals should protest at home before hopping over a gate, forgoing proper procedure and making demands of US here, because we allow them to.

I support his freedom of speech, but F*CK calling this guy revolutionary.

Dead Prez- These guys make too many general statements. Like "I hate callin niggas "niggas" so I'ma take it backwards but I got no love for whitey and love callin 'em crackas!" Is this speaking to rich white government or just white people in general? Or their video for "Hell Yeah".

Is it just coincidental that everyone they attack in that video happens to be white? After all that white family wasn't some elitist corporate figureheads or nazi skinheads. What could the little girl and boy have done, anyway? And the pizza delivery guy did nothing as they rapped "whiteboy in the wrong place at the right time, soon as the car door open up he mine, roll up quick and put the pistol to his jaw, but the look on his face he prolly sh!tted in his drawls" while mugging him. And, yes, I realize many of their fans are white. BUT, I tend to think that many white kids, now are mindless trendwhores, who completely wouldn't care if they followed an anti-white hate group, if they had good beats, so that means nothing to me. While many of their black fans (not saying all) are as racist as DP are.

I completely don't mind rappers' use of the word "cracka". I could see that term being used for elitist or racist types and CERTAIN white people in power. But, this sh!t just seemed indiscriminately prejudice and "ignant" as f*ck. Fighting fire with fire is bound to stir up more resent on BOTH sides.

As much as some people quote these guys as a "positive alternative" to the commercial stuff, I just think DP's type of violent revolutionary sh!t could potentially be a worse influence than the commercial stuff, if it actually caught on just as big. Dividing a further wedge between people. I have nothing to do with some racist cops, ignorant redneck conservatives, or corporate elite. Just like not all black people are ignorant "thugs" and criminals. Those black "thugs", though, are just as racist as those white cops, as I've had family members robbed by black guys using racial slurs, just for being white in the wrong neighborhood. Hate crimes and such need to be attacked on both sides. NOT ENCOURAGED. That is not progressive or "revolutionary". It's just hatemongering. Classism is a much larger issue than racism, now. Disarming the hate on BOTH sides of this whole black-white quarrel is the first step to uniting poor black and poor white America. Well, that's how I feel, anyway.
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Old 05-17-2006, 10:20 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't see what's so difficult to understand. Everything Tech said was on point. ****... he didn't even mention the fact that the US exploitation of NAFTA is directly responsible for the recent influx of illegal immigrants.

As far as the minuteman project goes... it has nothing to do with the "protection of our borders" and everything to do with preventing the influence of Hispanic culture here in the United States. Any patrolling of the Canadian border is purely a symbolic gesture made to hide the racist motivation behind their actions.

I could really care less about the *** comments. I'm sure that you could find artists from any musical genre that feel the same way, Tech's just more outspoken. You might not agree with his message but his skill on the mic cannot be denied. Tech is clearly one of the best, if not the best rappers out today.
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Old 05-17-2006, 11:29 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I really could not see Technique being an anti-*** activist. He uses ***got or homo in the same way that someone would use bitch or dumbass. It is so common in English that people use those words that they have really lost any anti-homosexual meaning. Maybe I haven't been listening to the right songs to hear all this anti-*** jargon. He does say *** or homo, the main songs of his that I am addicted to right now are Cause of Death, Creation and Destruction, Interally Bleeding, Obnoxious, Crossing The Boundary.

I love Immortal Technique and think his is right on target in the majority of his songs. Cause of Death has to be one of the greatest songs I have ever heard, or at least ones that push a political agenda. All of his music is so much better than his contemporaries as far as his ability to articulate his feelings. Rage Against the machine or any of these other political bands don't hold a candle to Technique.
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Old 05-19-2006, 01:06 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cas
I don't see what's so difficult to understand. Everything Tech said was on point. ****... he didn't even mention the fact that the US exploitation of NAFTA is directly responsible for the recent influx of illegal immigrants.

As far as the minuteman project goes... it has nothing to do with the "protection of our borders" and everything to do with preventing the influence of Hispanic culture here in the United States. Any patrolling of the Canadian border is purely a symbolic gesture made to hide the racist motivation behind their actions.

I could really care less about the *** comments. I'm sure that you could find artists from any musical genre that feel the same way, Tech's just more outspoken. You might not agree with his message but his skill on the mic cannot be denied. Tech is clearly one of the best, if not the best rappers out today.
Actually, Canada's part of NAFTA, also. The main difference is the corruption and incompetence of the Mexican government. STILL, there are too many arguements against illegal immigration, that have nothing to do with race. Playing the race card for everyone who opposes it is immature as h*ll. I do think immigration should be easier, but I feel that fixing the problems in Mexico should be the top priority. Granted, the United States wastes enough food in one year to feed an entire 3rd world nation, but we simply don't have the overall jobs or resources to accommodate the MILLIONS of illegal aliens hopping the gate. You can see it, now. They are no longer just taking jobs "that noone wants", but moving onto jobs like construction and others. Citizens can't possibly compete with the wages they work for. I've even heard a number of legal Hispanic immigrants, disagree with illegal immigration. Caesar Chavez and LAIR come to mind, right off the bat.

"preventing the influence of Hispanic culture here"? Sorry, don't get me wrong. I'm far from conservative, but that's just politically correct liberal bull. Like the idea that only white people can be "racist". Heard of Cinco DeMayo? Diversity is one of our nation's strong points and greatest strengths. I'm pro immigrant, LEGAL immigrant, and hate the term "anti-immigrant" being used for border control advocates. Like saying it's because every last one of us is just against the idea of immigration as a whole because of some xenophobic bull. Granted there are a number of ignorant white people who are racist, that support strong borders, BUT many who oppose illegal immigration for plenty of other VALID reasons are just being unfairly labeled. It's MUCH more complicated than everyone opposing it being "despicable, evil racists". That sounds more like McCarthyism than anything, to me. Some of my favorite entertainers are Hispanic or of Hispanic descent.

I don't have a problem with or any animosity towards the illegals themselves, though. As long as they are conscious of the fact that they are outlaws, and they're not part of the protesters or their supporters. I may do the same thing, in their shoes, as far as trying to come here. But, I'd be conscious that I came here as an outlaw and this had nothing to do with civil rights, and I'd just keep silent during this whole ordeal and pray for the best. It takes a lot of nerve for outlaws who don't have the nerve to revolt in their own country to forgo proper procedure, sneak in, and make DEMANDS from us. I'm surprised INS wasn't on hand at the protests, checking for green cards and ID. I'm just as against the idea of social security fraud, not paying taxes, and such from anyone, as many people being immaturely labeled "racist" are. Even if it were my WHITE twin cousin from the north, I'd be against it. I maybe sympathetic if they were family, but I would also tell him TO HIS FACE to keep a low profile, because he's here as an outlaw, not a citizen.

PS, don't go with the Native American arguement. I didn't agree with that either, but it's ancient history. People from all racial backgrounds (black, white, legal immigrants, 2nd or 3rd gen and their offspring) grew up here, now. And these laws are here for a reason and not just to keep any one particular group of people out.
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Old 05-19-2006, 01:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bungalowbill357
I really could not see Technique being an anti-*** activist. He uses ***got or homo in the same way that someone would use bitch or dumbass. It is so common in English that people use those words that they have really lost any anti-homosexual meaning. Maybe I haven't been listening to the right songs to hear all this anti-*** jargon. He does say *** or homo, the main songs of his that I am addicted to right now are Cause of Death, Creation and Destruction, Interally Bleeding, Obnoxious, Crossing The Boundary.

I love Immortal Technique and think his is right on target in the majority of his songs. Cause of Death has to be one of the greatest songs I have ever heard, or at least ones that push a political agenda. All of his music is so much better than his contemporaries as far as his ability to articulate his feelings. Rage Against the machine or any of these other political bands don't hold a candle to Technique.
I don't mind the words "f@g", "bitch", or whatever. They're just words. I guess I'm just annoyed that people call this guy the "savior" of hip-hop, almost. I was hoping that designation would go to someone who would be willing to do what Kanye did (not that I'm exactly his biggest fan), and attack homophobia in rap music. I don't mind that people hate, but the most violent types are usually the most ill-informed and ignorant ones, in regards to what they passionately "hate". And the most loud and aggressive "I hate f@g thugs" are the ones who don't mind 2 gals. Someone needs to slap and address this kind of "thug" tude problem, ignorance and these people. Hate it. Fine. Just be able to talk about it, without looking stupid, or shut up going overboard about the anti-g@y sh!t.
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Old 05-19-2006, 10:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
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The situations of Canada and Mexico in relation to NAFTA are entirely different. The United States did not displace millions of Canadian farmers by flooding their market with cheap, government-subsidized agriculture. The fact is that we increased subsidies to our agricultural industry by $180 Billion dollars the minute NAFTA went into effect, knowing the effect it would have on the independent Mexican farmer. So tell me, what are these people supposed to do? What would YOU do when you have a family to support and the US corporate monster just swallowed your only means of doing so?

But enough of the Mexican perspective and let’s consider the effects of this topic in our own country. Our economy is fueled by illegal immigration. Are you aware that even as recently as the early 1990s the US government has recruited workers from Mexico for a significant part of our unskilled labor supply? Why do you think that is? It is also a fact that illegal immigrant contribute far more to our economy than they ever take. That includes social security and taxes, which most illegal immigrants pay into but never draw the benefits.

These just some of the ugly truths that most people do not want to face. Nobody seems to mind paying these people pennies to do menial jobs until they have to wait in line a little longer at the grocery store for the clerk to get a Spanish translator. That's the point that people start becoming all self-righteous over illegal immigration and start spouting off about possible “terrorism” or any multitude of other lame excuses. What people really fear is that in the near future (and already to some extent) these “illegal immigrants” will become a political force and, like I said… spread the influence of their culture.

The bottom line is that things are fine the way they are. If you look into it, I’m sure you will find that most of these so-called “protestors” are not illegal immigrants and are just as clueless to the situation as those calling to shut down the borders. The illegal immigrant just wants to keep a low profile earn some cash to support his family.
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Old 05-20-2006, 12:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I agree with everything you said in the original post sikoholickkouboi, but I still am a fan of Dead Prez and IT. I think 'revolutionary' isn't the right word for either...I keep thinking about the RBG album (hint: not a fan)...would you rather have Dead Prez sounding like that forever?
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