The Islam Thread

[Neapolitan]

Originally Posted by Man like Monkey

lol that post, 'the saving 1 life is like saving all of mankind thing as well'

It's from the Mishnah circa 3rd century AD, only a few centuries before.

Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talmud

Originally Posted by Man like Monkey

We all know it's in there.

You missed the bit before what you quoted though and the very next verse outlines the brutal ways in which people can actually be killed.

That happens quite often.

President Obama in his speech said " The Holy Koran teaches that whoever kills an innocent, it is as if he has killed all mankind; and whoever saves a person, it is as if he has saved all mankind."
...

005.032 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

005.033 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

Read more: Blog: Obama quotes verse 5:32, omits 5:33

[Stephen]

They ordained for the children of Israel? Do they mean they told the Jews they're not allowed to kill?

[Neapolitan]

Originally Posted by Stephen

They ordained for the children of Israel? Do they mean they told the Jews they're not allowed to kill?

It could be the royal "we" in lieu of using allah's name.

[Stephen]

Contextually one might read it as telling the Jews that if they kill a Muslim they're declaring war on allah and they'll be executed. Removed from that context, sure it sounds peaceful but it seems as cherry picked as any quote used to argue either side.

Edit: essentially it's a verbal ink blot that can be used as divine authority for practically anything.

[Neapolitan]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Contextually one might read it as telling the Jews that if they kill a Muslim they're declaring war on allah and they'll be executed. Removed from that context, sure it sounds peaceful but it seems as cherry picked as any quote used to argue either side.

Well, I didn't read it exactly like that. It didn't mention anything about muslims, it only mentioned allah and his messenger. (What "his messenger" means in islam I am not sure. For the ancient Hebrews "God's messengers were either men or angels.) I think it is more than killing someone, it is about going against their religion by saying they are going against allah and his messenger.

I took it that whoever wrote the koran shows what the Jews believed in, that no one should kill anyone cause it's like killing everyone. It gave an exception to that "unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief." So it's stating no one should be killed for any reason, except those those who commit murder or spread mischief. Then it equates spreading mischief as "[waging] war against allah and his messenger."

Anyway 005.033 could be the very thing they use to justify killing people, e.g. the Charlie Hebdo incident.

1. Agree with the Jews ("Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world.")
2. Show them a loop hole. (spreading mischief)
3. Show how that loop hole will be used against them.

[The Batlord]

lol @nea's avatar

[Cuthbert]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

lol @nea's avatar

One of them neon Nazis.

[Oriphiel]

Originally Posted by Man like Monkey

One of them neon Nazis.

A raving madman, if you will.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by Man like Monkey

One of them neon Nazis.

Good one, dad.

[djchameleon]

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

Well, I didn't read it exactly like that. It didn't mention anything about muslims, it only mentioned allah and his messenger. (What "his messenger" means in islam I am not sure. For the ancient Hebrews "God's messengers were either men or angels.) I think it is more than killing someone, it is about going against their religion by saying they are going against allah and his messenger.

I took it that whoever wrote the koran shows what the Jews believed in, that no one should kill anyone cause it's like killing everyone. It gave an exception to that "unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief." So it's stating no one should be killed for any reason, except those those who commit murder or spread mischief. Then it equates spreading mischief as "[waging] war against allah and his messenger."

His messenger refers to Prohet Muhammad, as a Muslim you are supposed to strive for the perfection that Muhammad exhibited. So it can be interpreted as any Muslim being the "messenger" since they are supposed to strive to be in his likeness as far as behavior goes.