The Islam Thread

[jwb]

Originally Posted by Frownland

You mean accepting it as the status quo and pretending that it's no longer an issue? It looks like elph is ahead of you on that one.

no

Originally Posted by elphenor

wait so you think it's the decline of religion that allows for something like The Enlightenment and not the other way around?

seems to me that, generally speaking, as a society is allowed to develop, it naturally becomes less religious

for example, I don't think the US south is more traditional because they're religious, I think they're more religious because they're traditional...the reason for this being that the populations are more isolated and so haven't developed socially yet

if the religious tradition specifically disincentivises contradicting their holy doctrine, then yes, it specifically impedes progress. I dunno by what mechanism you think religious theocracies turn into liberal democracies but the idea that they turn liberal and then lose religion afterwards seems pretty far fetched to me.

Just like the nebulous sort of culture/religion distinction you try to erect it seems that the religion/tradition dichotomy is not at at all clear, and that societies simultaneously become less religious and less traditional as religion, culture and tradition are all intimately intertwined.

[jwb]

Originally Posted by elphenor

I don't think it's exclusively intervention, but that intervention plays a role in stunting their social growth

the biggest contributor is that the ME faces a level of instability and insecurity that The West does not anymore

The obvious problem with that thesis is that the Muslim world is far from unique with regard to their experience with Western imperialism yet there does seem to be a pretty noticable pattern of Islamic terrorism worldwide.

If it is mainly down to imperialism and global inequity then there's nothing that separates much of the Islamic world from other parts of the 3rd world in that regard.

[Lucem Ferre]

Originally Posted by elphenor

the bigoted opinion is believing Islam is uniquely bad compared to other religions

So why are you calling me a bigot? I specifically said the opposite.

[jwb]

In the beginning I was talking more about regular Islamic conservatism... But since me and you were talking specifically about extremism that last quote was dedicated to that.

I don't disagree it's political by nature. This might be an alien concept to you, but how you go about politics can very much be shaped by your religious and ideological POV. E.g. it's never surprising that someone who murders an abortion doctor is Christian. In fact it would be shocking if they weren't.

[jwb]

boooo


Neo pwned elph tbh guys

[Lucem Ferre]

Originally Posted by elphenor

did you give "Merry Christmas" as your name to the cashier around the time they removed it from Starbucks cups

[Lucem Ferre]

Nah, you're much funnier than Nea just not when you're telling jokes.

[jwb]

Damn... neo forced this fool to officially renounce his own manhood

Neo tha GOD >>>>>

[Lucem Ferre]

And you don't think religion influenced the political position at all?

Not the part where it says God punished women to serve men because Eve tempted Adam with the apple?

[jwb]

No.. you're the one playing semantics. The Bible flatly condemns jacking off, let alone abortion.

Please give me your pro choice argument that is based in scripture. I would love to read it.