thx fur aproving mi avtr

Paul Ryan gets punked. ****ing classic.

https://scontent.fsan1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...94&oe=59807DD1

It's probably helped along by the fact that I agree with Chula's position in this thread ( that Trump and his admin are a disaster for the American people), but I've never had a real problem with Chula's discussion style, here or elsewhere.

It's a pity that this thread gets so heated sometimes that it degenerates into personal insults and name-calling, but that's something that several posters are guilty of, no?

On flexibility; yes, if you want to cultivate an intelligent attitude to the world, it's fundamental. It's the scientific method; make a hypothesis, observe the facts, check that your hypothesis is still good. Sometimes the incoming facts will confirm your original hypothesis, in which case you don't change your ideas. At a glance, that may make you look inflexible, but that's not necessarily true.

For me, in the specific case of Trump, the facts just keep building up to confirm my initial hypothesis, that Trump is a self*-interested lying hate-monger, doing hard-to-calculate damage to the environment and the majority of Americans.(* I'd like to stretch the word "self" to include his businesses, his family and his fellow-millionaires.)

Fresh in, is this furthur, confirmatory verdict on Trump from Europe and France:-

For far rightists, the curse of Trump's example (Opinion) - CNN.com

Brexit happened before Trump got into office so I wouldn't give him credit for the populist movement gaining ground. Anti Muslim and refugee sentiments are the main culprits along with any terrorist attacks that have happened.

Who's been talking about "giving Trump credit for the populist movement gaining ground" ?

The point that me and the article are making is the precise reverse; that in the eyes of the world, Trump is discrediting populist movements.

Remember "The Arab Spring" ? It started in Tunisia and as other Arab nations looked on, the people thought they'd like some of the same freedom of expression, too. It was like a domino effect across about five countries, ending up tragically when it hit the brick wall of Assad's brutal regime.

It's too early to do more than just speculate, but with Trump it appears to be the opposite; the world watches what he's doing to America and thinks, "We don't want that happening here!" The evidence is that in 3 post-Trump European elections, populist parties all significantly lost ground.

Lisna in a Trump thread is easily the best thing this forum has ever seen.

^ I don't know about elsewhere, but in Britain the Labour Party is in disarray. Too much infighting and no leader with sufficient influence to pull them back together, plus these days the Labour Party is only notionally the party of the workers. :(

^ LOL ! Thanks Kii, but I have know idea why you should imagine that!

Your ability to form complete sentences and explain your thoughts. Just a guess.

^ Well, that's kind, DWV, but we all do about the same in our different styles. Plus we have the Grammar Police to keep us in line, don't we?

I do my darndest to be the voice of reason 'round these parts, but Sisyphus can't push this boulder up forever. :love:

Signed: The Child.

Ja don't worry. Me, DWV, Lucem, and on rare occasion Bat have the rational (and non-partisan) conversation side of things held down while you two shout your favourite headlines past each other.

I'm smart!!!

Keeps using JA in place of YES.

Thinks he's a hipster.

Poser.

I'm among the smartest posters in this thread. That's far from being smart.

I guess that's not true exactly, I'm among the smartest regular posters in this thread. When duga or Xurtio drop a post they usually do no wrong.

Because of all people who knows what's hip, it's the senile guy who can't control his bowels.

So petty, hypocritical, etc. Pick your poison.

As far as this thread goes, I'll give Frown a strong seven out of ten.

I've got you guys beat in the non-partisan department...I voted for the Green Party three election cycles ago. Trolling Chula is too easy though. It's like a big red button that everyone tells you not to press but you end up doing it anyway.

You keep trying to come across as superior. Like somehow you are intelligently the better man. That your posts, opinions, words are more important just because they are coming from you.

You are not trolling me. You are insulting me with comments like "child" because I don't see through the same rose colored glasses that you like to wear.

It's now been almost 20 posts since you've blamed Obama for something to deflect from the disaster that is Trump. Step up Ant.

Hey, just because you feel inferior doesn't mean that he's trying to come across as superior.

obama was a real president.
orange man is a tv show president.

I don't think non-partisan naturally translates to taking the middle ground, even though that's a common place for that road to lead. For the situations you're referencing, it's likely that you can reach the same conclusions as one partisan lens or another by looking at it from an objective perspective.

The true sign of intelligence is being aware of it and letting other people know, obvs.

In regards to my opinion on Trump: you have such a short memory. Might want to go see your doctor to have that checked out, because I'm a little worried about you.

You know, bringing up the previous administration in regards to Trump is important since he's building on their worst tendencies (Wall-Street collusion, questionable foreign policy) and dismantling things he didn't like about it (the ACA, budgetary provisions for certain entities, etc.). On the other hand, you give Obama all this credit for the stimulus package that "saved" the economy even though it was the Bush administration's doing. Double standard much buddy boy?

You have an inferiority complex and don't like being told you aren't seeing the big picture. If you don't want me to talk to you like a child and troll you, then try debating like a grown up.

You don't understand dude. The most important element of a presidency--and the thing that it should unequivocally be judged by--is how hypocritical that president is based off of their campaign promises. Things like real-world actions, effects on the economy, and decisions made on a case-by-case basis don't mean **** once we consider the hypocrisy. If a president ran a campaign on starting WWIII and tanking the economy then actualized that once they were in office, well that would simply make them the greatest president in American history.

For the umpteenth time - this is not a debate class for me. I've already lived through Obama's 8 years and witnessed first hand how his presidency affected me, and those I care about in a positive manner. He also gained back a lot of positive ground with our allies after the "you're either with us, or against us" rhetoric of GWB and Cheney.

I've also witnessed very closely all that is Donald Trump, his family, his cronies, and his smoke show up to this point. I have a very clear opinion of both men.

What's to debate?

And you reffering to me as a child is you simply being a dickweed. It's a simple as that. Your condescension is almost reaching Frowny levels.

Almost.

Dude....... :rofl:

Quit trying to belittle having constructive dialogues by making it seem like a practice reserved for high school students.

There's always more to learn, wouldn't you agree? Your experiences are such an infinitesimally tiny cross-section of the big picture and other people's experiences can help you understand your own opinions better. You may not change your mind on anything (that's typically a slow and long-term process that most people are not conscious of), but you will gain perspective and understand why people who think differently than you think that way instead of blowing a gasket asking yourself "why are these people so stupid?!"

If you can't see the value in that and how it would improve this garbage thread or at least clear up a couple of the ****storms in the forecast, then I don't know what to say.

Calling people dickweeds is pretty douchey, Chula. Those in glass houses and all that.

Here's something I've been curious about...

Since Trump has no filter, loves to insult people, and has generally taken a giant dump on the generally accepted political etiquette, has this changed politics in the US for good? Is it now open season to straight up insult and demean your opponent? Will our future presidents be expected to personally tweet? Or do you think things will go back to "normal" once Trump is out?

Damn, which country is this? I want to go there.

I guess I'll shout it out to get through your ear wax.

I'M NOT HERE FOR A DEBATE.

I'M NOT HERE FOR A DEBATE.



That's my freedom of choice. I'm not trying to take it away from anyone else.

And yes, calling a grown man a child as a way to try and bolster your argument is being a dickweed. Your lame ass retort trying to defend it is also a bit dickweedish.

I gotta go check Websters.....

Before the crash my home peaked at about $500K. At the worst point of the crash it got down to about $280K. As of right this very second it's at $433K.

About the same story for my 401K.

Both major signposts of how good or bad the economy is.

We are talking about different things here. The stimulus package (ARRA) you are talking about for '09 was in the works prior to Obama's ascension, though a lot of cooperation with holdovers from the Bush admins. was involved since the writing of it was finished after the transition period. It didn't come out of a vacuum. It wasn't a popular move when Bush was on his way out and it wasn't popular when Obama stepped up either, but it was a decent attempt to "stem the bleeding" that built on what Bush (as you pointed out) had attempted to address. For all intents and purposes though, it was the result of some degree of bi-partisanship.

FTFY

Maybe you shouldn't be on a discussion board if you don't want to have discussions.

I didn't know I was defending him calling you a child when I was criticizing you for calling someone a duckweed. Thanks for filling me in on that though!

Calling me a dickweed sure is dickweedish, Chula.

Person A submits a point.
Person B submits a counterpoint.
Person A doesn't buy it and states so.

If this is what you call a fight then you've obviously never been punched in the face a few times.

(and if that's the case, I think it would do you some good)

Childish too.

1. I showcase a well researched Vice article that makes good points about Obama and slams Trump. You don't bother to read it and call me names and act like a child when you don't get your way.

2. Proceeds to insult other people who call you out on your bullshit. You tell other people to look at the big picture but when they do they're just Trump apologists.

3. Cries like a toddler "I don't wanna debate1111" but proceeds to pigeonhole everything I "supposedly" am (AKA someone you don't know) without reading anything that is actually said.

4. Freaks out emotionally every other post and cries out "BAN ME" to the mods when cornered.

You can't have it both ways Chula. Are you going to be an adult or are you going to cry foul every time you get called out on your flawed thought process?

Yep. All I was saying was that a lot more went into it than people realize.

(put a little edit at the end)

That actually sounds like constructive discussion to me.

Verbal fighting is still fighting, I'm kind of confused why you think it wouldn't be just because there isn't any physical violence.

Also FYI: wanting to resolve a disagreement with your fists instead of your words is about as childish as you can get. If you don't want people to call you a child, maybe stop acting like one.

Personally? I think that, after four (or possibly eight—hopefully not) years of Trump, the ad hominem effect will wear off. People will want somebody more respectful.

Mind you, that's also what I hope will happen, so I'm hardly an objective speculator.

My guess is that we'll see a return to form similar to what you describe here, except that attempts to crack social media will still be prevalent. I also see us abandoning pointless standards of presidential decorum (like the president taking a call from someone who our besties thinks is a big meanie or that the president MUST attend [x] event). As far as tweeting goes, I hope it fizzles out because of how often the media portrays tweets as presidential decrees that are on the same level as executive orders when they're just shitposts at heart that shouldn't be overanalyzed.

I see the opposite. With each passing day the masses are getting more and more tired of the circus, and his base is shrinking. The buyers remorse denial is getting harder and harder to deny. And it's not even been a third of his first year.

There's serious controversy over him and Russia, Ivanka and her business ties, Kushner and his business ties, Flynn has become a serious albatross, his US taxpayer spending for personal reasons is beyond ridiculous and without precendent, and he simply comes off as a bufoon over and over again.

Who the **** was waiting for his NINE tweets about Sally Yates after her testimony yesterday?

The circus tent is about to come down.