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-   -   What Did President Trump Do Now? (https://www.musicbanter.com/current-events-philosophy-religion/87986-what-did-president-trump-do-now.html)

Frownland 02-13-2017 11:04 AM

Such inventive logic. If I missed the point, go on and clarify it since communicating is a two way street. Tell me: why do experiments no longer become experiments when you don't like them?

DwnWthVwls 02-13-2017 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga (Post 1805190)
I agree with this - it was surely inevitable the way we were going, but I go back and forth wondering if it is necessary to stoke the change that will surely come out of it. Big changes do typically happen quickly, as history has shown. The only way you can get past the people who fear change is if something blindsides them.

It's been my thought for a long time (well before Trump) that the way we use technology and the internet is incredibly irresponsible. It has been the major factor in the widespread ignorance we see. I don't think our internet freedoms should be curtailed - it still has the potential to enlighten everyone if used correctly - but I do think a sea change in the way we think about it is needed. And I think this election has planted the seeds for that change. We need to stop viewing the internet as an anonymous place where you can feel good about yourself and do whatever you want. With social media and the sheer amount of time we spend on the internet, we need to start seeing it as another real place that real people visit (albeit not physically). People need to be held accountable for their actions and we need to start behaving on the internet the way we would behave in real life. If a bum on the street starting spouting Hillary conspiracies, I wouldn't believe him. The same bare minimum scrutiny should be exercised on the internet.

I think people are now starting to realize all this. We need companies like Facebook to step up and realize that most people get their news from their feed - they are now a news media organization whether they like it or not. They need a way to get people real news. We need internet education for our kids. Like home ec before, a whole class should be dedicated to internet etiquette and utility. We are currently witnessing what happens when an entire generation grows up with an internet with no rules. The best analogy I can think of is the wild west. Kids should be taught from a young age that there are consequences to your actions on the internet.

I feel like the past 20 years of the internet have been like if all of us were 5 year olds waving around our parents' gun. We got shot in the foot with Trump, but hopefully we learn our lesson the next time around.

/rant

I have problems with this. I don't think you're wrong about how the internet should be approached, but if I understand you correctly you are blaming the internet for the culture where as I think the culture is responsible for the internet. I grew up at a time when the internet first took off and I was involved in some of the earliest MMORPGs and internet social networks and very few people acted the way they do now. Maybe I'm just blinded by my own experiences. Maybe it's because I was a teen in an environment dominated by adults or maybe my experience was in a niche community. It's hard to say.

Anteater 02-13-2017 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiiii (Post 1805195)
I mean, this mindset is fine and all, but it's no longer considered an experiment when the country gets pushed back further than expected. Nothing seriously terrifying has happened because people have fought back, but what happens when we can no longer fight back?

Hah. The last decade or more was an experiment as well. Pushed back further than expected? Other than the stimulus bill, Obama didn't do anything in his past eight years in office that you'll find too much consensus with people on...especially in regards to foreign policy. I also consider the ACA and the whole "make Wall-Street accountable for what they did" to be failed ventures. He's a smart guy, but to me he dropped the ball on things that would have potentially brought about real change in Washington. You can blame a lot on the GOP, but what I just mentioned? All on him and his cabinet.

As far as I can tell, Trump has pretty much gotten his way in office from start to finish with the exception of a few courts putting a lid on his immigration order. Which is fine, as what he did was too broad in scope and not specific enough to be useful. Which is why he's gone back to the drawing board. Being the CEO of a global empire may have parallels with the POTUS office, but Trump is starting to learn that there are roadblocks that you won't run into in a private enterprise. Maybe he'll grow from the experience.

And thus the experiment continues.

Lucem Ferre 02-13-2017 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1805162)
Touche, but he doesn't build strawmen, put words in your mouth, and only address the things he thinks he has a smart answer for while ignoring the rest.

That's enough ripping on elph for one night for me. I like the guy when he isn't talking down to me.

Frown does those things all the time for the sake of trolling Chula.

DwnWthVwls 02-13-2017 11:35 AM

Are you against the ACA and "make wall-street accountable" ventures or just there implementation?

Lucem Ferre 02-13-2017 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1805208)
Are you against the ACA and "make wall-street accountable" ventures or just there implementation?

He said they failed at their purpose.

And for Duga's thing about he internet, I repeat that it's not a false news problem it's a stupid people problem. Bull**** stories and rumors existed long before the internet. If anything the internet provides much easier access to the information you need to make an informed opinion. It's just a lack of critical thinking and the fact that most people don't care about what's true, just what backs up their perspective because I guess being wrong is too big of a blow to some people's egos. You can definitely see a lot of that in these kinds of topics.

Edit: You can definitely see that willful ignorance when Elphlord and Chalupa Vista make AuntEater out to be this greedy business man for attempting to be optimistic about a candidate he doesn't even particularly like. (at least I don't think he likes Trump)

Key 02-13-2017 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1805203)
Such inventive logic. If I missed the point, go on and clarify it since communicating is a two way street. Tell me: why do experiments no longer become experiments when you don't like them?

I didn't say anything about me not liking them. I said both times that it no longer stays an experiment when the country is in arms length of a threat to push it back. And it also stops being an experiment when people can't fight for what they believe in. Whether or not I like it has nothing to do with it. How you got that conclusion is beyond me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1805206)

As far as I can tell, Trump has pretty much gotten his way in office from start to finish with the exception of a few courts putting a lid on his immigration order. Which is fine, as what he did was too broad in scope and not specific enough to be useful. Which is why he's gone back to the drawing board. Being the CEO of a global empire may have parallels with the POTUS office, but Trump is starting to learn that there are roadblocks that you won't run into in a private enterprise. Maybe he'll grow from the experience.

And thus the experiment continues.

So you're implying that the shock of Trump actually running didn't push more people to focus on him and his potential for presidency? I would say it wasn't only him that allowed his presidency to happen. The media and his shocking demeanor helped him along the way. But it also didn't help that this election had two of the most unpopular candidates. People voted Trump so they wouldn't vote Hillary, and vice versa. Trump isn't smart enough to figure out the system all by himself.

duga 02-13-2017 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1805205)
I have problems with this. I don't think you're wrong about how the internet should be approached, but if I understand you correctly you are blaming the internet for the culture where as I think the culture is responsible for the internet. I grew up at a time when the internet first took off and I was involved in some of the earliest MMORPGs and internet social networks and very few people acted the way they do now. Maybe I'm just blinded by my own experiences. Maybe it's because I was a teen in an environment dominated by adults or maybe my experience was in a niche community. It's hard to say.

Not at all - if it sounded like I was blaming the internet for anything then I didn't word it correctly. The internet is an amazing tool - just like anything that makes lives easier and can inform and educate. It requires responsibility on our part to keep it from turning into the partisan ignorant cess pool we know today. The internet will always be the internet...how we approach it has to change.

To address your statement about the early days of the internet. I saw them, too. I can remember a time with no internet. I value being a part of the generation that saw its rise. My thoughts on your statement, though, are that back then only fairly tech-savvy people really got into the internet. As it has been placed more easily in the hands of your average joe shmoe...that's when we've seen the rise of trolls, fake news, yadda yadda. As with anything that changes the way we perceive the world (and the internet has no doubt done that), there are growing pains associated with it. We are still in the connected world's infancy and we have to relearn different types of social etiquette.

DwnWthVwls 02-13-2017 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre (Post 1805210)
He said they failed at their purpose.

I know.. That's not what I asked though. I don't know much about Anteater's views, so I was just curious.

Edit: Thanks Duga.

Chula Vista 02-13-2017 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre (Post 1805210)
Chalupa Vista

Mods, can this be made official? :tramp:

I don't think Ant is some evil business purpose. I just don't agree him on a number of issues.


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