elphenor

This isn't actually what happened

More importantly, it's meaningless, it's a dodge

It doesn't even belong in this thread

__________________
Just another marketing ploy

Anteater

Wrong again. If Trump Tower was ever wiretapped in the last few years by the FBI for any reason then that's a very big deal and justifies Trump's "feelings" so to speak. Why? Because unless you are completely naive, then it should be obvious that the FBI collected a fair amount of information beyond the confines of that particular investigation for that time period. You really think they only bugged one floor? I don't buy it, and nobody else will either.

Again, you can't have it both ways. If you, Chula, etc. are going to stick to the view that there's a possibility that Trump ever corroborated with Russia despite a lack of any hard evidence, then you need to acknowledge possibilities in regards to some of these other allegations too, especially considering what we know about the FBI and NSA's capabilities. They aren't paradigms of morality any more than Trump is: they're just a million times better at controlling their audit trail. The insinuation game works both ways, and the truth is always somewhere in the middle.

Either way, the whole thing is a clusterfuck that makes both Trump and our intelligence agencies look worse than they did before.

__________________
Anteater's Top 30+ Albums Of 2019!

Chula Vista

So the FBI had a court approved warrant to tap some suspected Russian criminals renting space on the 63rd floor in Trump Tower?

And that relates to exactly what in regards to Trump?

Again, nice try at a deflect. And that poll is not a Fox News "story". It's just published poll results. Similar results have been posted by numerous sorces.

Bottom line: Trumpcare is going to be a major black eye for the Donald.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/201...care/21904839/

EDIT: The courts gave the FBI approval to tap ONLY the phones of those tenants. You're beginning to sound like Sean Spicer.

__________________
General Rules:
• While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks, trolling, purposeless inflammatory posts or members deliberately provoking another member into committing any of these acts. - Mods exempt.

Anteater

Dude, I'm here anytime you are done missing the point completely. I'm sure the FBI would never, ever do anything outside of the bounds of legality. Go read my last post if the implications of all this are "lost" on you, especially since officials over the last week said Trump Tower was never wiretapped for any reason.

I've seen all the polls. You specifically cited a "Fox News poll". Don't be obtuse.

__________________
Anteater's Top 30+ Albums Of 2019!

Chula Vista

Officials said that Trump was never tapped at Trump Tower. And the FBI taps of suspected Russian criminals is confidential government information. THE FBI HAS NEVER TAPPED TRUMP'S LINES AT TRUMP TOWER. The Russian taps were well before he even announced he was running for office for cripes sake.

I cited Fox for your benefit. If I'd cited anyone else you would have immediately dismissed it. Who's the one being obtuse here.

Your republican Trump boner is once again robbing your brain of blood. And don't bother with the same ole, same ole, "I'm not a republican and I don't even like Trump BS."

Your posts speak louder than your denial of the tone of your posts.

__________________
General Rules:
• While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks, trolling, purposeless inflammatory posts or members deliberately provoking another member into committing any of these acts. - Mods exempt.

elphenor

I'm of the opinion that the gov did spy on Trump as it spies on everyone of any notoriety (just not really in the way Trump claimed, that's not what evidence has shown)

nobody care though except again, Trump supporters easily distracted by shiny objects

"uhhh OBAMA YES THIS WILL WORK"

__________________
Just another marketing ploy

Anteater

1. Assumptions, and naive ones at that. You don't know what the FBI does or doesn't do, and Trump is right to be paranoid about them even if he's wrong about their method of surveillance. You only know what is told to you thirdhand from sources that have already filtered and scrubbed it down. As for me: one of my best friends and neighbors was part of the FBI for 30 years. The stuff that they do outside of what the media actually "knows" about would knock your socks off.

2. I think most polls are garbage regardless of who conducts them (having done that work myself long ago in college), so if you did it for my "benefit" then you messed up. At best, they provide a fractured picture from groups that are hardly representative of anything. People are having kneejerk reactions to the AHCA (and it does need a lot of work), but nobody really wants the ACA either as it is.

3. You should try demonstrating critical thinking in regards to our government regardless of who is or who is not in power. What I'm talking about is way more serious than Trump, a guy who won partly because of timing and will very likely lose his next bid for re-election once the incompetent Democrats get their shit together. He's a symptom of a greater set of problems, and this stuff with the FBI, the NSA, etc. should illustrate that better than anything else.

__________________
Anteater's Top 30+ Albums Of 2019!

Frownland

Did you read the poll though?

__________________

At a time like this, scorching irony, not convincing argument, is needed.

Anteater

Yep, he's talking about the most recent one. But if you read the fine print on media who have "covered" this story:

"The poll, which has a 3 percent margin of error, was conducted by telephone with live interviewers from Sunday through Tuesday among a random national sample of 1,008 U.S. registered voters."

That's a very small sample size, plus we don't have any demographic breakdowns or any real information on how these interviewers conducted their questions. Which is why you end up with results that say "man, in comparison to the AHCA we really love the ACA that we said we hated before" even though that makes no sense whatsoever. A lot of people who dislike the AHCA disliked the ACA as well.

I think I'd like it at this point if Paul Ryan would hop on a big-ass hot air balloon and fly away, never to return.

__________________
Anteater's Top 30+ Albums Of 2019!

elphenor

"Oh **** I'm getting grilled let me make some ridiculous obviously false statement as a distraction"

And everyone plays fetch with the jackass

__________________
Just another marketing ploy