Originally Posted by Lisnaholic (Post 1800757)

For me, Trump just gets creepier by the minute. With US citizens protesting at airports, US judges ordering stops on Presidential exec orders, and people with US visas being detained, it looks like a shambles that is both hurting and infuriating a lot of innocent people. How can Trump say, "it's working out very nicely"? The same way he said that it stopped raining when his speech began, I suppose; he's prepared to lie even in the face of irrefutable evidence to the contrary.

At least in the past, politicians used to be more discreet about their deceptions, crediting us some level of critical intelligence. But Trump shows an arrogance, a contempt for the American people - that they can be told anything, and will have to live with it. That's creepy.

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1800743)

No, and you can have The Batlord too.

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic (Post 1800757)

For me, Trump just gets creepier by the minute. With US citizens protesting at airports, US judges ordering stops on Presidential exec orders, and people with US visas being detained, it looks like a shambles that is both hurting and infuriating a lot of innocent people. How can Trump say, "it's working out very nicely"? The same way he said that it stopped raining when his speech began, I suppose; he's prepared to lie even in the face of irrefutable evidence to the contrary.

At least in the past, politicians used to be more discreet about their deceptions, crediting us some level of critical intelligence. But Trump shows an arrogance, a contempt for the American people - that they can be told anything, and will have to live with it. That's creepy.

Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1800781)

What I bolded there is honestly a lot more creepy than Trump, but we've lived with it for decades.

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic (Post 1800793)

Hi Anteater! Good to see you posting again after a long absence!

Yes, hidden deceptions are very worrying, of course, but they do indicate that politicians feel there's some accountability to the public. There's a limit to what they can get away with, hence the need to hide things.

Some of Trump's announcements remind me of things from Soviet era totalitarianism - that there is no need for the official version to reflect the facts, that factual debate is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by djchameleon (Post 1800784)

He hasn't. The travel bans are basically religious tests. When you ban people from coming in from Muslim majority countries that infringes on freedom of religion especially the people that already went through the proper channels to get US Visas.

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic (Post 1800793)

Hi Anteater! Good to see you posting again after a long absence!

Yes, hidden deceptions are very worrying, of course, but they do indicate that politicians feel there's some accountability to the public. There's a limit to what they can get away with, hence the need to hide things.

Some of Trump's announcements remind me of things from Soviet era totalitarianism - that there is no need for the official version to reflect the facts, that factual debate is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1800796)

Good to see you too! Hope you've been well.

Trump is a typical populist strongman, for better or for worse depending on a multitude of POVs. He acts the way he does because he has no political experience though, as opposed to having an agenda based on hatred. He's going to be an interesting case study four years from now, especially if he decides not to run for re-election.

On another note, seeing CNN and similar news outlets post an upside down statue of liberty was pretty over the top, so I thought I'd share this for something resembling a more balanced perspective on what's happening.

The National Review - Donald Trump's "Muslim Ban" - Seperating Fact From Hysteria

Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 1800802)

Balance from the National Review. Hilarious.

Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1800691)

Chula, aren't you a Bill Maher fan?

Originally Posted by Anteater (Post 1800808)

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. If even NPR can't be bothered to have more than a five second attention span when they discuss breaking news, then that needs to be balanced out with articles like that one that contextualizes what's happening over a broader span of time and several presidencies.

Originally Posted by Man like Monkey (Post 1800798)

Why does it? Would it apply if he banned people from Italy?

Originally Posted by djchameleon (Post 1800813)

Ask yourself is Italy a Muslim majority country?

Originally Posted by Man like Monkey (Post 1800814)

I think you've missed the point to be honest.

Originally Posted by djchameleon (Post 1800815)

Why are you discussing non Muslims? What's your point?

Originally Posted by Raust (Post 1800839)

Hey guys remember when Obama did a ban on the same countries plus more for a longer period of time and no one gave a ****? Good times!
MORE HYPOCRISY: Obama Banned all Iraqi Refugees for 6 Months in 2011 - Liberals SAID NOTHING!

Originally Posted by Exo (Post 1800840)

There should have been protests then as well. It still doesn't make it right. It was wrong then and it's wrong now. Every time one of these articles pops up it just screams "well HE DID IT SO NOW I CAN" to me. This country needs to grow the **** up and start doing the right thing no matter who it benefits or who it hurts financially and stop caring about who did it first or who did it better.

Originally Posted by Raust (Post 1800841)

Not surprised he did this. It was one of his campaign promises and it's only for 90 days. This was based off a bill Obama had. This could be a lot worse and people are literally crapping there pants. Nothing really wrong here. Not even a ban on Muslims.

Originally Posted by Raust (Post 1800841)

…literally crapping there pants.

Originally Posted by Exo (Post 1800843)

Keeping these people detained in Airports after they already went through the process of getting their visas is wrong. And again, I don't give a sh*t what Obama did or not not do. He isn't the president anymore. Trump is and he's just continuing this ongoing smear campaign against Muslims and the countries they come from. His campaign basically opened the flood gates for rampant racism and religious discrimination and his actions over the last week have only fueled them more.

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1800844)

Nationalism is a scourge

Originally Posted by Qwertyy (Post 1800849)

they're pants*

Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 1800855)

They're literally pants.

Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 1800855)

They're literally pants.

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1800857)

It's all bad

people are people

To stop caring about fellow human beings because they're on the other side of an imaginary line and still consider yourself a good person requires some elite self-delusion

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1800859)

I believe in virtually open borders (with background checks ofc) because it is what is morally right

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1800868)

I want to be able to travel to different parts of the world and experience different cultures and have my thoughts challenged. The good parts of nationalism preserve culture and create a good form of segregation which prevents homogenization. .

Originally Posted by Exo (Post 1800872)

To be fair, I don't think the integration of different cultures does sh*t to our identity as Americans. New York City is a gigantic cauldron of different cultures but still maintains its "New York" feel that is unique to any other city in the world.