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Old 04-10-2017, 02:13 PM   #151 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
and you know when you're poor and desperate already and then a US drone misses its mark and wipes out your family

it's not that hard to be convinced of the 82 virgins
yeah, poking the bear definitely doesn't help the issue at hand.
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I'm not even mad. Seriously I'm not. You're a good dude, and I think and hope you'll become something good
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:15 PM   #152 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
you have no understanding of Islam whatsoever
And considering you seem to defend it with such loyalty, neither do you kemosabe.
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:17 PM   #153 (permalink)
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I got my money on elph being more informed on the religion. I'm sure you have good intentions Ziggy but your posts read like you get your info from a lot of incredibly biased sources, as evidenced by your posting of the religion of peace website.
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:22 PM   #154 (permalink)
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I got my money on elph being more informed on the religion. I'm sure you have good intentions Ziggy but your posts read like you get your info from a lot of incredibly biased sources, as evidenced by your posting of the religion of peace website.
Then why defend it?

I don't get all my religious information from one website btw dude not to mention the second website linked that no one criticised had the same level of statitics
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:25 PM   #155 (permalink)
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You language and perspectives read like what I've described. .

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Originally Posted by Ziggy ''Frappanised'' Zappada View Post
Then why defend it?
Scapegoating any kind of group is no bueno as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:26 PM   #156 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ziggy ''Frappanised'' Zappada View Post
Jesus = prophet who helped the poor.
According to who? Next you're going to tell me he looked like this:



Instead of this:

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Old 04-10-2017, 02:28 PM   #157 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Chula Vista View Post
According to who? Next you're going to tell me he looked like this:



Instead of this:

I was (in the same comment) referring to what these religions teach

It seems a lot of you guys favour Islam over Christianity, if so, why?
Why not disprove and disregard all religions?

No religion should be a factor of critical thought
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:39 PM   #158 (permalink)
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right, i totally agree. but at the core of what you're saying there is still the element of religious devotes engaging in extremist behaviors because of their beliefs, whether or not there is someone pulling the strings above them or not.

again, i don't think it is simply an issue of religion, and clearly the idea that we have a "muslim" problem is bigoted and quite frankly incorrect, but i also believe it is important that people acknowledge that there is a subsection of the religion that engage in this behavior.
We're of a similar mind on this topic. I hadn't moved on the Phase II because so many people were still having trouble with Phase I,. separating Islam from terrorism as its necessary conclusion.

Phase II is addressing man's existential unease and susceptibility to paternalistic, hierarchical systems. The only fix I'm aware of is increased education, increased social stability, and increased opportunity. The irreligious make up a over a third of Europe and a quarter of the US - massive gains over the past half-century (wiki source, but internal citation is strong, I spot checked a dozen or so. We have the luxury of institutions that provide generational stability.

I could go on, as I clearly enjoy this topic, but I'll stop the mutual back-patting now
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:53 PM   #159 (permalink)
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I'm not out to defend religion

I'm just out to point out the truth here

But I don't think some of you understand that the texts of the 3 big religions are products of their times (where for example 9 would have been considered an acceptable age) and are tales meant to raise the spirits of the poor and oppressed against the will of the oppressor
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:56 PM   #160 (permalink)
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I've broken this exchange down to make it easier to follow.

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Originally Posted by rostasi View Post
1. Non-Muslims make up the majority of terrorists in the United States: According to the FBI, 94% of terrorist attacks carried out in the United States from 1980 to 2005 have been by non-Muslims. This means that an American terrorist suspect is over nine times more likely to be a non-Muslim than a Muslim. According to this same report, there were more Jewish acts of terrorism in the United States than Islamic, yet when was the last time we heard about the threat of Jewish terrorism in the media? For the same exact reasons that we cannot blame the entire religion of Judaism or Christianity for the violent actions of those carrying out crimes under the names of these religions, we have absolutely no justifiable grounds to blame Muslims for terrorism.
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Any figures for the past decade?
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Originally Posted by rostasi View Post
#1: as I said above about recent statistics...
This discussion is about Islam in Europe and whether it is a problem today. Not in the United States from 1980-2005. I presume the FBI didn't stop publishing statistics in 2005; why didn't you mention the numbers since then?

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Originally Posted by rostasi View Post
2. Non-Muslims make up the majority of terrorists in Europe: There have been over one thousand terrorist attacks in Europe in the past five years. Take a guess at what percent of those terrorists were Muslim. Wrong, now guess again. It’s less than 2%.

3. Even if all terrorist attacks were carried out by Muslims, you still could not associate terrorism with Islam: There have been 140,000 terror attacks committed worldwide since 1970.
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Originally Posted by Pet_Sounds View Post
1. Source?
2. I don't think the last 47 years are in dispute. Most people in this thread are focusing on the last 15, at most.
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Originally Posted by rostasi View Post
#2: sources are all over the Internet - even sending some of you links won't dissuade you -
there's always a number of runaround excuses devoid of facts that follow.
#3: apparently 47 years (and more, not less) are in dispute
I asked for your source on some specific statistics. "All over the internet" is not a good citation.

As I understood it, this thread's focus was on the situation in Europe today. I fail to see how worldwide statistics from 1970 (those mentioned in point 3) are relevant.

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Originally Posted by rostasi View Post
Even if Muslims carried out all of these attacks (which is an absurd assumption given the fact mentioned in my first point), those terrorists would represent less than 0.00009 percent of all Muslims. To put things into perspective, this means that you are more likely to be struck by lightning in your lifetime than a Muslim is likely to commit a terrorist attack during that same timespan.

4. If all Muslims are terrorists, then all Muslims are peacemakers: The same statistical assumptions being used to falsely portray Muslims as violent people can be used more accurately to portray Muslims as peaceful people. If all Muslims are terrorists because a single digit percentage of terrorists happen to be Muslim, then all Muslims are peacemakers because 5 out of the past 12 Nobel Peace Prize winners (42 percent) have been Muslims.
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Originally Posted by Pet_Sounds View Post
You can't make any sort of statistical "assumption" with a sample size of 12.
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Originally Posted by rostasi View Post
#4: EXACTLY!!!
Then what's the purpose of that paragraph?

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Originally Posted by rostasi View Post
5. If you are scared of Muslims then you should also be scared of household furniture and toddlers: A study carried out by the University of North Carolina showed that less than 0.0002% of Americans killed since 9/11 were killed by Muslims. (Ironically, this study was done in Chapel Hill: the same place where a Caucasian non-Muslim killed three innocent Muslims as the mainstream media brushed this terrorist attack off as a parking dispute). Based on these numbers, and those of the Consumer Product Safety Commission, the average American is more likely to be crushed to death by their couch or television than they are to be killed by a Muslim. As a matter of fact, Americans were more likely to be killed by a toddler in 2013 than they were by a so-called “Muslim terrorist”.
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One could argue that those numbers are not surprising, given the increased security since 9/11. Why exactly was it left out of the study?
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#5: so if the numbers are not surprising, then what's the big scary bugaboo?
There is no "big scary bugaboo." Given the increased security measures in America since 9/11, it's not surprising that very few people were killed by Islamic terrorists (and yes, I realize it says "Muslims," not "Islamic terrorists"). I'm not aware that such measures have been taken against lightning or toddlers. Additionally, I thought we were talking about Europe?

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Originally Posted by Man like Monkey View Post
Post number 84 was directly stolen from this article from the Huffington Post: Muslims Are Not Terrorists: A Factual Look at Terrorism and Islam | The Huffington Post

He's been challenged on 'his' claims by Pet Sounds and we await a reply.
I'm not challenging rostasi's claims; in fact, I'm not even interested in debating. I just dislike what Lisna refers to as "slinging statistics," especially when they're cherry-picked. Actually, I thought his post was one of the best in this thread. Too bad he didn't write it or cite it.
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