Oh and Ivanka Tweets that she is heartbroken and justice is dead and everybody just responds with hanging Trump memes and that's literally the last time she ever makes a public statement.

Maybe, if you're lucky, Trump will win his second term and then Ivanka will run and become the first female president to succeed her father.

But who would Albert Fish have voted for?

Batlord's reply to this was spectacular. But I'm curious what the difference between a Centrist and a Liberal is. Especially since the Progressives don't see much of a distinction.

I think of myself as pretty far left, with the usual anomaly positions everyone has. The only thing I consistently back in the Urbanist position - way more public investment in public transit, housing, and education. And the consolidation of the American public, a general reduction in sprawl, and a full-scale investment in renewable energy.

On foreign policy, i'm more hawkish than my Lefty friends. But only because I think when America leaves the world stage you're going to get worse actors.

I don't trust foreigners to imperialize as good as we do either.

I mean, if somebody is going to mindlessly slaughter Iranians I'd rather it be us. American terrorism #1.

We have to kill the poor savages before they do it to themselves.

Good reminder, friends. I'm also distinct from my more progressive associates because I believe you can't quote bumper stickers and turn it into policy.

Good distinction.

I was wrong before when I thought Yang was gonna get the nomination.

Are you ever going to admit that you're wrong that you can turn incrementalism into a movement when rich ghouls can just buy influence? I mean do you just have faith that capitalism can be redeemed and made compatible with democracy?

See this is what I'm talking about.

• Incrementalism
• Influence
• Movement

If you were a serious person you wouldn't talk in vague buzzwords. You'd define what you meant. But the enduring problem with you revolutionaries is that as soon as you start defining what you mean, you start to eat each other. You have to say ACAB because if you wrote actual criminal justice reform you'd have no allies. Every progressive is the smartest in the room, and they can't compromise or let someone else get the glory.

You all just sit around and complain about the DNC and say "**** it I hope Trump wins, that'll teach 'em to not do exactly what I wanted."

Then there was that antivaxxer thing.

Then that time you said black people are genetically inferior.

And also that time when you said women who wear make up should expect sexual harassment.

Nice strawman temper tantrum.

Since when did incrementalism become a buzzword?

About the time Bernie lost the nom in 2016. What is incrementalism? Was the ACA incremental? What about the JCPOA? Was DACA incremental?

And if they are, explain to me how you get anything bigger through in one Congress. Other than your moonshot hypothetical "movement."

If you're going to call me a neoliberal, you should have the balls to acknowledge that I don't make perfect the enemy of the good.

It's not a vague term at all. Yes, all of those were incremental. Maybe even less than incremental.

Obviously it'd be by voting for people that actually want to change the status quo rather than voting for the status quo.

I never called you a neoliberal. If I remember right, Batlord called you a centrist.

Incrementalism = small wins meant to give relief to small groups of people while under the assumption that radical change is impossible.

Influence = ... influence.

Movement = group with influence.

It's not really that hard to parse and my greater question was easy enough to understand by anyone who doesn't secretly know but never admit to themselves that it's a losing battle fighting the wealthy with political small arms fire because they have more money than you to buy "influence" with the political parties full of other wealthy people.

And I do not sit around and hope Trump wins. I hope he gets lynched. The only path forward I can see that doesn't involve violent revolution that will probably end up a hellscape is radicalized labor organizing that understands that just fitting itself into a capitalist infrastructure is doomed to failure because capitalism is class warfare against the working class and so the working class trying to make friends with it will only lead to the destruction or assimilation of organized labor.

But that's a tall ****ing order that's hard to take any solace in when the right controls the narrative and the center leftists still pretend that they're engaged in a cooperative venture with the right and not enemies.

Love how when Big3 doesn't understand a word it's the other person's fault.

I think the ACA actually serves better in proving Batlord's point.

It was hardly even a budge in the right direction. The pandemic has done more to influence people towards free healthcare than the ACA ever did.

Ja that's a head scratcher. Kind of a textbook example of how good policy can evolve into an empty bureaucratic gesture in the name of compromise and pragmatism.

Idk if it was Big3, I think it was just soundgarden & JWB, but the fascism one was a good point.

I do argue with others occasionally over definitions of words, but, to be fair, I don't think I've ever attacked someone, blamed them for my misunderstanding (or a collective misunderstanding) or been a dick about a disagreement (other than in pure jest, sorry Batty, you know I kid).

I do think it's worthwhile, if we want to discuss things seriously, to at least agree on the meanings of words or else we'll be speaking past each other.

Like how in the **** do you call "influence" a buzz word and ask what you really mean? I mean influence, you clod.

Ja buzzwords are defo prominent. ****, even buzzword is a buzzword used to dismiss ideas. Kind of like the fallacy fallacy where identifying fallacies is used as a distractive instead of logical argument. Then there's the fallacy fallacy fallacy where people misidentify a legitimate call out of a fallacy as a fallacy fallacy.

Words suck. Overrated.

Nah, you guys had a good point and made me completely rethink the way I use the word.

Fascism definitely is a vague buzzword.

The fallacy fallacy gets most used on ad hominem. I just like to talk ****. But I also had a point.

No you are not. You are a trendy bitch.

And the DNC is the ****ing enemy. The RNC is a worse enemy but they are both the modern American neoliberal hierarchy that needs to be smashed. The DNC are not allies. The only reason to possibly align yourself with them is as a temporary tool.

I feel that. I wish that the public never learned of the term troll because it's emptily thrown at people who blend humour into their discussion too often. Like it's impossible to be funny and right at the same time or some ****.

Yup. Trump is not really a successful fascist as he hasn't actually seized the power a fascist would want but he most definitely uses fascist means like right wing populism to scare monger against the left, minorities, and a perceived loss of majority power and pride against shadow enemies.

Literally happened to me not even because I was being funny but I wasn't nice enough when telling somebody they are wrong.

All I said was, "You know some of these have been debunked, right?"

And I guess that makes people feel stupid.

Yeah aggressive lefty my ass. You absorb and regurgitate lines but deep down you're a Chula. The DNC supports ****ing liberalism. Literally the thing a lefty wants dead. It's in the ****ing brochure.

Shaking my dick?

ftfy

It's worked pretty well so far.

If I can't find a good independent then I might vote for Biden. Which makes me shudder.

I mean... yeah... but I would never say I'm "ridin with Biden" like some tool. I'll probably end up voting Biden if I don't just say **** it I can't be bothered, but it will feel empty and gross. I mean you're the guy who was Stanning Hillary calling her a "smart lawyer lady", so calling yourself an aggressive lefty is just bull****. You're a pragmatist pure and simple who pumps himself up to believe in the pragmatist vote you're making so you can feel proud of it. A Chula.

This would be so much more fun if Biden picked Tulsi Gabbard as his VP instead.

How is it larping when it's a real vote? I'm not wild about that field either though.

I heard that the Dems are saying they're not looking to investigate or persecute Trump for his crimes if he loses.

Testicle.

Oh look at this aggressive lefty. Can't bring change with a 3rd party so lets bring incrementalism with the DNC.

Yeah **** off, you're nothing but a LARPer. You talk about punk cause you like getting attention with your clothes and like getting attention by talking about communism. You might as well go full Wiccan so you can cast magic spells with your upward facing pentagram necklace.