Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 2069153)

I can’t believe Gay Pete is against that ****. It’s a no brainer. School should be free. It’s good for society for people to know ****.

I’ll tell you a little secret. I got a pretty damn good score on the GRE. They should give me free tuition and a meal plan and train me for the Green New Deal. I test out as having the aptitude. I’m smart!

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 2069160)

You’re right. We can’t. But we can’t carry on like this either. Something’s gonna give. Class war, economic collapse, environmental disaster- full disengagement from the populace - this ain’t going nowhere good. We better figure something out.

Communism: One More Try

Get at me with the better plan

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 2069159)

On the real though work wouldn’t be so sucky if you were allowed to share in the prosperity. Work sucks when you’re just another commodity. Work would be fine if you were allowed to take rightful ownership of what you do. Take when I was prepping fish. It’s hard to believe but the fish I prepped alone made the restaurant over $10,000 a day in PROFIT (not net but over the bulk cost of the fish). One butterflied steak of mahi was $20 on the plate. They cost the restaurant like two bucks a piece frozen. I thawed them and butterflied them then the line cook baked or grilled it and plated it. The waitres served it. We went through 40 lbs a day. That $1600 in JUST MAHI (dolphin fish). I also did 7 other items. If it were a collective democratic cooperative after ALL expenses $500 a day would’ve still been a lowball. That’s over $100,000 on a 4 day week. Think about it. There’s no ****ing excuse for people making $70-$100 bucks a day (or less). It’s ****ing madness.

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2069170)

I thought you were anti school?

Originally Posted by Doug McClasky (Post 2069178)

*whips out calculator*

*beep boop beep*

You would have had to cut 500 mahi steaks to make $10,000 gross profit.

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 2069181)

Yeah. I cut between 80 and 100 everyday. And that was just mahi.

Actually that’s just butterflied steaks because I also did mahi strips for fish tacos and those ****ers sold as quickly as the steaks.

Originally Posted by Doug McClasky (Post 2069185)

So you did not make the restaurant $10,000 a day is what you're saying.

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2069187)

Not only that. You are more expendable than the restaurant. They can get some other sucker in there to do the same job for the same wage.

That's what wage slaves don't understand. The money you make isn't related to the profit your work generates. It's how hard you are to replace. If you could make 10k in a night without the restaurant you wouldn't work there. You need them more than they need you.

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2069183)

I'm not holding you accountable I'm asking

You're pro free college but anti compulsory education k-12? Don't you think a ton more kids won't even make it to college if they aren't forced to go to school when they're young?

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2069193)

fish don't get cut if workers don't cut it

labor theory of value

your work has an inherent worth regardless of the market factors

often times workers have to unionize in order to even the scales such that they are paid the value of their labor and not the market's extortion

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 2069192)

Do you think there’s any possible way I don’t understand that?

That’s why at the outset I explicitly said in a democratic collective cooperative.

I’m imagining the situation outside of a capitalist framework.



Got it?

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2069196)

you're imagining a place that makes money selling fish outside the capitalist framework. Got it.

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2069193)

your work has an inherent worth regardless of the market factors

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 2069198)

In this case it’s called a cooperative.

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2069200)

the only thing that adds value such that there is a surplus is the labor of workers

capitalists profit is them pocketing the surplus workers create through extortion

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 2069194)

I don’t care if two entirely hypothetical what ifs in my mind don’t play into each other. I think concerning yourself with inconsistencies and apparent hypocrisies will make you a simplistic linear thinker. I’m a citizen for a non-linear future. I’m a complicated brother.

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2069202)

Call it what you want. Cooperatives exist within the capitalist framework and they aren't competitive with the corperations if the world. You don't deserve that much money for cutting fish cause it's an easily replaced low skill job.

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2069207)

the market factor I'm talking about is the dynamic between wotkers and owners

if workers unionize Labor Theory of Value becomes apparent as you remove the power imbalance

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2069208)

That's a very convenient way to avoid self doubt it critical thinking.

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 2069211)

So you want to take this to the personal level again...

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2069213)

I'm not against unions but that only takes you so far. You aren't going to make 10k I'm a night cutting fish because you aren't worth that much. Without the infrastructure the business provides your labor is essentially rendered worthless.

Otherwise why not just start you own business and rake in all the profits like I said.

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2069214)

if we allowed the markets to actually decide what worlers "deserve"

many workers would make less than 7.25 an hour here in Texas

because it's nothing to do with the value of the work, it's that capitalist can abuse their position of power

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2069214)

if we allowed the markets to actually decide what worlers "deserve"

many workers would make less than 7.25 an hour here in Texas

because it's nothing to do with the value of the work, it's that capitalist can abuse their position of power

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 2069217)

Please read or don’t respond

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2069221)

you would be very lucky to make that either, on your own

Real talk you decide to try to sell fish on the side how much money do you think you can take in a night?

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2069221)

you would be very lucky to make that either, on your own

Real talk you decide to try to sell fish on the side how much money do you think you can take in a night?

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre (Post 2069227)

Sounds like some uncle tom ****.

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2069230)

It's just reality. Nice misuse of a racial slur though, Utah.

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre (Post 2069233)

Perfect use of it. Kiss up to the people that exploit you by insinuating they are more valuable than the laborer. Which is literally retarded. You have no business with no product and no product with out laborers to produce it. Perhaps you completely misread his point that never said that marketing and management is unimportant, just that laborers should be treated just as important as anybody else in the company.

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2069234)

simply put, there is no value generated if there is no labor, there is no surplus

again, ain't no fish getting served if nobody cuts them

what you're describing by saying workers are replaceable is a result of a power imbalance

it has no bearing on the value of the work itself, which is inherently valuable proportional to the surplus