Political Discussions for "Adults"

~~jwb~~ · 03-23-2021, 10:46 AM

Maher is a better political commentator than he is comedian, but I've found him stale and boring for some time. I think politically incorrect had better discussions than his current show. There are still decent discussions on there sometimes when he brings the right people on but a lot of the time it's a bunch of smarmy elitists patting eachother on the back. And his monologues/new rule bits have always been stale self congratulatory sermons disguised as comedy.

But he's really not much worse than the million and 1 late night John stewart rip offs out there. There was a time when it was basically just him and stewart doing this politics/news oriented late night comedy. So at least he's not just another copy cat.

All of the current late night guys are trash with the exception of John oliver. That's only cause John oliver it's actually funny. The rest of those dudes just preach... They don't have an ounce of wit left in their body. Colbert is the worst. He used to be funny too. Now just pure smarmy and weak comedy.

Anteater · 03-23-2021, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

equality of outcome and equality of opportunity are the same thing

if you don't have the same starting point and circumstances you don't have equality of opportunity

and the only way to have the same starting point and circumstances is equality of outcome.

You can start off in completely different positions and still have the same opportunity to apply for a job or do whatever. You can reduce the disparity between the haves and have-nots, but not to the extent that people more passionate about the subject than I would consider to be acceptable. I still haven't seen a model, even a theoretical one, that completely eliminates most forms of disparity.

On the other hand, equality of outcome is a mode of thought that assumes that specific outcomes can be controlled / legislated all the way down to the individual level in an extremely precise manner, which is impossible to achieve outside of totalitarian levels of meddling in people's lives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

All of the current late night guys are trash with the exception of John oliver. That's only cause John oliver it's actually funny. The rest of those dudes just preach... They don't have an ounce of wit left in their body. Colbert is the worst. He used to be funny too. Now just pure smarmy and weak comedy.

John Oliver is so funny sometimes that I don't even mind it if I think he's wrong about something. That's a real talent.

~~jwb~~ · 03-23-2021, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

You can start off in completely different positions and still have the same opportunity to apply for a job or do whatever. You can reduce the disparity between the have's and have-nots, but not to the extent that people more passionate about the subject than I would consider to be acceptable. I still haven't seen a model, even a theoretical one, that completely eliminates most forms of disparity.

On the other hand, equality of outcome is a mode of thought that assumes that specific outcomes can be controlled / legislated all the way down to the individual level in an extremely precise manner, which is impossible to achieve outside of totalitarian levels of meddling in people's lives.

John Oliver is so funny sometimes that I don't even mind it if I think he's wrong about something. That's a real talent.

Having an opportunity goes beyond being able to fill out an application.

Me and bill gates might have the same opportunity to apply for a loan. We both know damn well that we don't have the same opportunity to get the loan.

**Marie Monday** · 03-23-2021, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

equality of outcome and equality of opportunity are the same thing

if you don't have the same starting point and circumstances you don't have equality of opportunity

and the only way to have the same starting point and circumstances is equality of outcome.

Church. I suspect that what conservatives call 'equality of outcome' is just a more proactive way of trying to achieve equal opportunity. Pointing out that complete equality of outcome in impossible is just a lazy way of trying to get out from under that.

The Batlord · 03-23-2021, 07:31 PM

The difference is Colbert is just lame whereas Maher is only somewhat less punchable than Trump. Alright quite a bit less punchable but he's still way too far down the spectrum.

TheBig3 · 03-23-2021, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

equality of outcome and equality of opportunity are the same thing

if you don't have the same starting point and circumstances you don't have equality of opportunity

and the only way to have the same starting point and circumstances is equality of outcome.

Could you say more here? That doesn't seem to be logical. I'm taking "equality of outcome" is that you and I end up with the same money, housing, transportation options, and medical care, everything. Is that not how it's being used?

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I actually feel the opposite where Maher can be pretty funny but his commentary is juvenile

I mean, he's 60 something you're...I don't know but I'll guess 20. You're probably not going to see things the same way.

~~jwb~~ · 03-23-2021, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I actually feel the opposite where Maher can be pretty funny but his commentary is juvenile

Ftr I don't think he's particularly good as a commentator either

But he's never once made me laugh

Anteater · 03-23-2021, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

Having an opportunity goes beyond being able to fill out an application.

Me and bill gates might have the same opportunity to apply for a loan. We both know damn well that we don't have the same opportunity to get the loan.

Bill Gates and you aren't competing for the same loan though. He's in a completely different market with different priorities. You don't even share the same water supply. When you get a loan locally, your typically competing against people closer to you socioeconomically, or at least the gap is a lot less than you think.

~~jwb~~ · 03-24-2021, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

Bill Gates and you aren't competing for the same loan though. He's in a completely different market with different priorities. You don't even share the same water supply. When you get a loan locally, your typically competing against people closer to you socioeconomically, or at least the gap is a lot less than you think.

We wouldn't be functionally competing for the same loan cause obviously we don't have the same opportunities based on our current station in life. So we're more likely to be applying for loans where we are competing with people who have similar circumstances to our own. Because that's the way to system works, Wealth and privilege beget more opportunity and thus no system where wealth and privilege are unequally distributed can have equality of opportunity. At best you can say people have equality under law IE the same basic rights guaranteed to everyone. But rights are not the same thing as opportunity.

~~jwb~~ · 03-24-2021, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Could you say more here? That doesn't seem to be logical. I'm taking "equality of outcome" is that you and I end up with the same money, housing, transportation options, and medical care, everything. Is that not how it's being used?

That is how i am using it and i would say all of those criteria you just listed impact one's opportunities by definition. see my reply to Ant if you still don't get what I mean.

03-23-2021, 10:46 AM	#9191 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Maher is a better political commentator than he is comedian, but I've found him stale and boring for some time. I think politically incorrect had better discussions than his current show. There are still decent discussions on there sometimes when he brings the right people on but a lot of the time it's a bunch of smarmy elitists patting eachother on the back. And his monologues/new rule bits have always been stale self congratulatory sermons disguised as comedy. But he's really not much worse than the million and 1 late night John stewart rip offs out there. There was a time when it was basically just him and stewart doing this politics/news oriented late night comedy. So at least he's not just another copy cat. All of the current late night guys are trash with the exception of John oliver. That's only cause John oliver it's actually funny. The rest of those dudes just preach... They don't have an ounce of wit left in their body. Colbert is the worst. He used to be funny too. Now just pure smarmy and weak comedy.