The Batlord

I've never really been up on Chinese history, past or current, but I've been watching a lot of Hong Kong movies recently and it's made me interested in Hong Kong itself, which has made Hong Kong one of the most interesting cities in the world to me right now. I don't know much about the history of Hong Kong under the British, but it sounds like they had something approaching freedom under them during their latter period of not really having the power to be true imperialist thugs, then in 1997 Hong Kong was given back to the Chinese with a stipulation that they'd have some kind of independent government for a further 50 years. And China has been encroaching, sometimes violently, on that agreement ever since.

It's just the craziest situation to be in. I live in a country that has a leader who may or may not be a generic brand fascist but who knows what the next election will bring, and the election after that will at least mean that that guy will be gone for good, so my brush with authoritarianism is confusing and possibly overblown, whereas Hong Kong has a date set on when they will fall under a completely repressive regime with no respect for freedom or human rights. I just can't imagine that ****. That's pure ****ing cyberpunk in a not funny at all way. There's a legit part of me that wants my country to protect their freedoms, not because I believe in American imperialism as a good thing, but I just feel awful when I think of the existential horror that Hong Kong citizens must feel when they think of the future.

What do other people have to say?

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Frownland

Hong Kong as we've known it is history and it's clearly a test case for Taiwan. Get ready for round three, folks.

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The Batlord

At least Taiwan has treaties that theoretically protect them. All of Hong Kong's treaties agree that the world will stand by and watch as they're turned over to authoritarianism. I imagine the Taiwanese have hope for the future. Do Honk Kongers even have any hope?

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Frownland

No.

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Oriphiel

Bull**** bureaucracy aside, China has as much control over Hong Kong as it's ever going to get without straight up war. The people are already rioting over any small bill that would even only theoretically give the mainland more leverage.

China thought that they'd get over it. They haven't. If anything, the next generation is even more staunchly opposed to them than all the people who were freaking out in the '90s.

In the end, the people don't give a **** about treaties and political agreements. They just wanna do their thang without being erased for political dissent. If it comes down to it, they'll realign with England in a heartbeat.

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The Batlord

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...re-extradition

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The Batlord

Do you think China won't land troops? Do you think Hong Kong leadership won't align with mainland China and do their proxy bidding? I mean does China really care about turning Hong Kong into a warzone? Back in the day Hong Kong was an economic powerhouse China desperately wanted, but now they're just another big city with a lot of money, something China isn't in short supply of. Maybe it will matter more to China that the rest of the world sees one of their cities standing up to them.

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OccultHawk

lulzzz what would poor little ol China do then?


Not very relevant to the discussion but I visited Hong Kong in my twenties and it was a highlight of my life. Coolest ****ing place.


These days I think if you have a some money in your pocket life is just is good in Shanghai unless you’re a minority.

China has cameras all over the place and spies on everyone but so does London.

And regarding Taiwan. Taipei is the same thing. If you’re poor it sucks.

Oh wow they get to vote. Big ****ing deal. Beijing and Shanghai are better places to live. For sure Shanghai blows the **** out of Miami and Jacksonville.

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Oriphiel

The same thing that they did when a regiment of Manchurians walked right into the capital and completely conquered them for almost three hundred years.

China has a history of underestimating smaller forces, and getting completely blitzed. I mean for ****s sake, a ragtag group of starving commies managed to **** all over the well armed and foreign backed federalists, and sent them running off to Taiwan like little bitches.

A UK/Hong Kong tag team would John Woo those mother****ers right into the next century.

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DMBFFF

Haven't they abducted some already?


One's a country, one's a city; and the latter's more likely concerned about real crime.


What of other US cities?


Yup.


Hard to say as the reds might be cooking the stats, and aren't they into stabbing?

Moreover, the murder rate in the US is likely < 6/100 000: a multiple of China's, but likely pretty low.




What it looks like to me:

1. UK's out of the picture. They made a decent deal given the circumstances. They leased it in, what?, 1899?, for 99 years, from a long gone mostly unmissed emperor. The jig was coming up in 1998, and in, what?, 1984?, worked out a deal for 50 years. Economics helped. It might help again with Trump and perhaps more so the corruption inherit under likely increased corruption under Xi. The time for the commies to mess up HK is not now. But Hong Kong will slowly become Communist before 2047. Time to emigrate.

2. Taiwan is standing firm. I wonder if it has nukes: such would be good aces.

3. If China gets aggressive, it's neighbours might react, including Japan by increasing military size.