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Old 05-27-2008, 03:25 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SubPop View Post
Compared to other bands who are of their vintage, the who, rolling stones, I would put waters intelligence level up there to someone like John Lennon.
Well now, that's not a particularly less damning prospect to what I said.

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Sorry but you need to get your facts straight. The only member who ever had a substance abuse problem was Syd
Constantly smoking pot for years on end counts as substance abuse, in my world.

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There are a lot of bands who break up on bad terms, it does not make them dumb.
And yet, if they had an iota of intelligence they would sort out their problems and stay together even just 'cause it makes more business sense. Sorry but whatever way you look at it, a bad break-up usually implies a bunch of braindead morons.

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Having a big ego also does not make you unintelligent.
That depends upon who you are. If you're Roger Walters, it sure as hell does!
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Old 05-27-2008, 06:37 PM   #52 (permalink)
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THE WALL (1979)


How the hell do I begin to review this album? One thing is for certain, It is a unique album. It divides fans and critics alike. It has some of the most bloated, sychophantic music ever commited to vinyl, yet there are some genuinely brilliant pieces of music dotted around the initial 4 sided doubled album.

The albums instigator is Roger Waters. Thematically and musically he basically steamrollered the band into making this album. What is intriguing is that whilst obviously coming across as a piece of bloated egotism, it was also a sincere piece of writing and a genuine attempt to express the alienation that Waters felt. This is the paradox. By attempting a musical catharsis of his inner thoughts, Waters only suceeded in finally alienating virtually all those close to him.

One of the most significant aspects of the album is (rightly or wrongly) Waters baring of his soul to all and sundry. There are some moments of exquiste tenderness on the first half of the album that are lyrically AND musically exceptional. Mother is such an example. Don't Leave Me Now also tugs at the heart strings and Waters vocals, although never his best attribute; scream heartache and loss.

However, one of the main problems with the album is creating a third person narrative through the fictional character Pink.

The aforementioned tracks are so obviously Waters emotions, that the creation of a jaded rock star bemoaning his life (Empty Spaces for example) seems trite and a cop out for Waters. He wants to brave his soul but just when it seems like the end of the world, the figure of Pink appears.

It's a shame that this device is used so much during the album. The need to hide behind a fictitous character smacks of a cop out to me and I would have appreciated the album so much more if Waters stopped hiding behind the shadow puppet and laid his soul bare AND acknowledged that is is him.

Unfortunately by creating this character he becomes self indulgent and loses sight of the music. It becomes secondary in many parts of the albums second half, when the story takes precedent over the music and becomes not much more than a bleeding heart soap opera.

When Waters let's someone in to his world at this point we get some of the albums most lauded pieces-Run like Hell and Comfortably Numb are some of the Floyd's best tracks and this is not just because I am judging them on a Gilmour adoration.

He let someone in on his world musically and it produced some damn fine music. Waters=Lyrics. Gilmour=Melody. However with the exception of these latter half highlights, I always run out of patience with this album.

Wright was famously sacked during the recording and it shows. There is barely any decent keyboard lines throughout and was a sad indictement of Waters and Wrights relationship at that time.

What is annoying about this album is the magnitude of Waters ego and the self pitying attitude that is all over this album. whilst I would never wish unhappiness on any single member of the human race, we should keep things in perspective.

Waters lost his Grandfather in WW1. He was going through a divorce and he spat on a fan 2 years previously. This produced The Wall. Not a great life but hardly an excuse to bemoan his life. The album becomes one long whinge and I run out of patience before the end , despite some great tracks such as Hey You suggesting otherwise.

I think this is Floyds worst album by far and although the production is exemplarary and it deals directly with emotions, I find it one of their most emotionally cold releases ever.


As a side note. The film version of The Wall is a flawed yet fascinating piece of work that provides me with more entertainment than the album ever does.
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:01 PM   #53 (permalink)
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YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spot on review sir
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:50 PM   #54 (permalink)
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THE FINAL CUT (1983)


There is a strange dichotomy with this album. This is invariably a Waters solo album. Wright was long gone and Gilmour could barely be in the same room as Waters. All music and lyrics is credited to Waters, yet the album has a significance and emotional attachment that overides the (subjective) achievements of The Wall.

Once again the album is metaphorical for Waters and it provides an emotional exorcism regarding his grandfather who was killed in WW1. What remains such a strange sidenote is that the album features two of the Floyds most gut wrenchingly emotional pieces of music ever. The Fletcher Memorial Home and The Gunners Dream. The Gunners Dream is one of Waters Finest hours lyrically:

Floating down through the clouds
Memories come rushing up to meet me now.
But in the space between the heavens
and the corner of some foreign field
I had a dream.
I had a dream.
Good-bye Max.
Good-bye Ma.
After the service when you're walking slowly to the car
And the silver in her hair shines in the cold November air
You hear the tolling bell
And touch the silk in your lapel
And as the tear drops rise to meet the comfort of the band
You take her frail hand
And hold on to the dream.
A place to stay
"Oi! A real one ..."
Enough to eat
Somewhere old heroes shuffle safely down the street
Where you can speak out loud
About your doubts and fears
And what's more no-one ever disappears
You never hear their standard issue kicking in your door.
You can relax on both sides of the tracks
And maniacs don't blow holes in bandsmen by remote control
And everyone has recourse to the law
And no-one kills the children anymore.
And no one kills the children anymore.

Night after night
Going round and round my brain
His dream is driving me insane.
In the corner of some foreign field
The gunner sleeps tonight.
What's done is done.
We cannot just write off his final scene.
Take heed of the dream.
Take heed.

It also takes in a chance for saxophonist Raphael Ravenscroft to add emotional depth that was not noticed before.

There is also the argument that Waters expertise is in maybe in imagery and his lyrics are better suited to imagery.

There is no doubt from me that The Final Cut has more credence concerning a musical project and Waters finally shed his anger on this album, whilst making arguably better music than The Wall.

As a Waters dominated track, I can think of no better track than probably his last and finest contribution to Pink Floyd before he left:

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Old 05-27-2008, 09:31 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Constantly smoking pot for years on end counts as substance abuse, in my world.
okay if you want to live in that ingnorant world (ie pot smoking decreases your intelligence) thats fine. Pink Floyd did enjoy the odd smoke but they were hardly smoking all the time. You are getting their fans mixed up with the band.

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And yet, if they had an iota of intelligence they would sort out their problems and stay together even just 'cause it makes more business sense. Sorry but whatever way you look at it, a bad break-up usually implies a bunch of braindead morons.
Okay, the beatles, The Dead Kennedys, Husker Du, The Pixies, Janes Addiction there are many bands that break-up on bad terms, it does not make them stupid. Being in a band and hanging with the same people all the time for years can be a strain on good relationships especially when collaborating artistically. The more I think about what you are saying the more I am thinking you are either young, stupid yourself or just being a troll.
If you have anything else to say on the matter please explain how "a bad break-up usually implies a bunch of braindead morons".

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That depends upon who you are. If you're Roger Walters, it sure as hell does!
Roger is a creative genius you goose! If the only evidence that you have to the contrary is that he smoked pot all the time (lie) and that he has a big ego stfu.

Re: the wall, I agree with a lot that you say, however I think you are being a little hard on the album. Whilst not on par with their other 70's albums I do think it is a better album than some of their 60's releases (atom heart mother, saucerful, more, and ummagumma)

Re: Final cut, great review, great underrated album. I would add "southhampton dock/The final cut" to the 2 songs you mentioned as highlights of the album.
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Old 05-28-2008, 04:14 AM   #56 (permalink)
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okay if you want to live in that ingnorant world (ie pot smoking decreases your intelligence) thats fine. Pink Floyd did enjoy the odd smoke but they were hardly smoking all the time. You are getting their fans mixed up with the band.
It turns you into a dopey, lethargic, lazy, unambitious fool. It also does have a negative effect on memory and anybody who claims anything to the contrary is a plain liar and just making excuses for their own lazy, lousy lifestyle. Alcohol abuse has even worse consequences.

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Originally Posted by SubPop
Okay, the beatles, The Dead Kennedys, Husker Du, The Pixies, Janes Addiction there are many bands that break-up on bad terms, it does not make them stupid.
Not being able to put your egos aside and sort out your problems like civilized human beings DOES make one stupid and an idiot, and I find it hilarious that anybody is able to claim anything to the contrary.

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Originally Posted by SubPop
If you have anything else to say on the matter please explain how "a bad break-up usually implies a bunch of braindead morons".
See above. Mature adults ought to be able to sort out their problems in a civil manner. It's below childish to fail in this regard, since even kids rarely hold grudges for more than a short period of time.

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Roger is a creative genius you goose!
He is a creative genius. There was no disputing that. You can be a creative genius and be braindead in other ways.

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Originally Posted by SubPop
If the only evidence that you have to the contrary is that ... he has a big ego stfu.
Problem is, a big ego is very often a sign of a low intellect. Somebody with greater mental acumen would not think so abnormally highly of themselves.
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Old 05-28-2008, 07:45 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Can we just get back to loving my fine reviews please?
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Old 05-28-2008, 07:49 PM   #58 (permalink)
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I was fairly indifferent to the wall, as Gilmour said himself it just lacked soul for me. Good review, this is where my Floyd listening ends though. I will check out albums after this if you think I'd like them.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:51 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Nice review of The Wall although a little bit too critical imo.
It wasn't all that bad...certainly not their worst.

But how did it sell more than animals or Wish you were here?
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Old 05-30-2008, 04:24 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Nice review of The Wall although a little bit too critical imo.
It wasn't all that bad...certainly not their worst.

But how did it sell more than animals or Wish you were here?
I may have been a little over zealous but I think this album is so overated it's untrue and there are very few good moments on the album.
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