Music Banter

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-   -   Spill Your Guts: What You Really Think About MB members (https://www.musicbanter.com/editors-pick/41000-spill-your-guts-what-you-really-think-about-mb-members.html)

RoxyRollah 12-29-2014 04:47 AM

Who the hell is Jeff?

The Batlord 12-29-2014 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah (Post 1530158)
Who the hell is Jeff?

Some dude who could probably **** out a grapefruit.

RoxyRollah 12-29-2014 05:02 AM

ahha

Pet_Sounds 12-29-2014 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth (Post 1529989)
oh ****... you know what this means? forum war!

which forum is it specifically? don't be a little 14 year old aquarium loving traitor.


Music-Discussion.com. Interestingly enough, it's the forum where Big Ears now spends his time.

Goofle 12-29-2014 06:31 AM

Is rap considered music?

:laughing:

Isbjørn 12-29-2014 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pet_Sounds (Post 1530165)
Music-Discussion.com. Interestingly enough, it's the forum where Big Ears now spends his time.

What's your username? I'm registering and want to refer.

Nevermind, found you. Bwahahah.

FETCHER. 12-29-2014 06:37 AM

I just ate a whole load of popcorn.

Pet_Sounds 12-29-2014 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Briks (Post 1530168)
What's your username? I'm registering and want to refer.

Nevermind, found you. Bwahahah.

I'm a lurker mostly, but it's a decent place to pick up recs.

The Batlord 12-29-2014 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofle (Post 1530166)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Some Music Discussion Douche Named 'jazzboCR'
Get with the program and please don't call out other contributors--that's a hallmark of MB thinking and actions, and we don't play that sh!t here.

**** yeah! I gotta say, if that thread is anything to go by, Music Discussion is full of a bunch of boring turds.

RoxyRollah 12-29-2014 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FETCHER. (Post 1530170)
I just ate a whole load of popcorn.

With butter?

James 12-29-2014 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1530173)
**** yeah! I gotta say, if that thread is anything to go by, Music Discussion is full of a bunch of boring turds.

And people say this forum is overly sensitive. They seem like a bunch of little crybabies.

RoxyRollah 12-29-2014 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James (Post 1530185)
And people say this forum is overly sensitive. They seem like a bunch of little crybabies.

:laughing:

Let's go kick their ass and take their lunch money.

The Batlord 12-29-2014 07:43 AM

JustinJJustin needs to pick a side. There is no neutrality in a forum war.

Edit: Oh look, I found Justin's intro thread on Music Discussion, and it had this little gem...

Quote:

Well, would you look who it is. I'm finding it hard to want to stay in this forum, as I have got used to MB too much, but I'm going to stick around. See what the people are like here. Hopefully there is a Batlord equivalent. That would be awesome.

And thanks everybody for the warm messages.
I'm not letting you forget that, Justin.

Freebase Dali 12-29-2014 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overcast (Post 1530062)
When approaching this argument without a bias FD is in the right. The threads intent is to express unfiltered opinions on members. To establish rules that prohibit that would completely defeat the point. I would completely agree with FD's side if it wasn't for being so condescending in mocking people who are more sensitive.

Not everybody has your thick skin, and you're right, they shouldn't be in the thread in the first place if they cannot take it. This thread is obviously not just used for shitting on people at this point, though. Mild banter or even positive remarks are common from what I've seen. It has multiple uses then, yes? Maybe a new thread should be made for the mild banter and occasional positive remarks for sharing member opinions, and this thread can be purely for shitting on people with no remorse (which is apparently cathartic, not my cup of tea though.)

I personally think it's better to be mindful that this thread has strayed from its original intent and to not include members who do not want the more extreme side of the negative opinions you have to offer. Some people are just the way they are and it's better to accept that and respect it then take away a thread that may serve a use to someone who enjoys the aspects other than the original intent. This thread seems more laid back than a cathartic shitting session to me and the laid back aspect serves value in existing just as much as cathartic shitting on people. People who want both or one of the other should use their brains to come to an understanding on what is okay and what is not and proceed from there. If you don't agree with each other on what is okay that's perfectly fine. If you continue to shit on someone who has expressed hurt towards the shitting then you're just being a dickwad.

There's nothing wrong with someone who doesn't take negative criticism well. I don't. Yes, they could not read it, but what's the point in even writing something about somebody if they're not gonna read it anyways? Chances are they will since, as I said, this thread isn't just used for shitting on people. You don't need to censor the thread to a certain overall standard, just avoid involving people in this thread in the way it was intended to be used who don't wish to be involved. 9 times out of 10 (a statistic I pulled out of my ass) someone is gonna see it as an insult more than constructive or lighthearted, and if they do then avoid including this person and move on. That isn't censoring your thread. You made your opinion known and the person didn't like it and you've come to a solution. That is a better solution than mocking people who don't meet your standards for an appropriate reaction to a remark that may be lighthearted to you but overly offensive to them. This thread is asking for drama no matter what unless you meet half way and coexist among both the shitting and the dick-sucking.

That's just my opinion, though.

TL;DR: Shitting.
I also probably repeated myself a bunch but I guess that helps solidify my point within your brain.

Best response here. I can see your point and will take it into consideration. It hadn't occurred to me that others may have changed the way they view the thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Briks (Post 1530099)
Hey, Freebase, if you want to use your opportunity to be a dick in this thread and keep a heated argument going for 20 pages, go ahead, but as Pet_Sounds said, I don't see why you couldn't just have taken it in PM. Sorry if this is no longer relevant.

Thanks for your input. I wasn't *trying* to be a dick. I just naturally am. But I will take it down a notch.

Thelonious Monkey 12-29-2014 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1530189)
JustinJJustin needs to pick a side. There is no neutrality in a forum war.

Edit: Oh look, I found Justin's intro thread on Music Discussion, and it had this little gem...



I'm not letting you forget that, Justin.

Yeah, MD ain't that type of forum. It's slow as shit, so I doubt there is another cunt like you. You're one of a kind. That isn't a compliment, but I'm sure you'll take it as one.

Edit: Also like to say that Briks avatar looks like a depressed as **** version of Ben Wyatt from Parks And Rec.

The Batlord 12-29-2014 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinJJustin (Post 1530198)
Yeah, MD ain't that type of forum. It's slow as shit, so I doubt there is another cunt like you. You're one of a kind. That isn't a compliment, but I'm sure you'll take it as one.

Edit: Also like to say that Briks avatar looks like a depressed as **** version of Ben Wyatt from Parks And Rec.

Backpedal all you like, but out of ALL the members of this site, I am the one who you mentioned. You may leave the offering upon my altar on your way out.

Chula Vista 12-29-2014 09:32 AM

Good morning! Flu's kicking my ass pretty big time (even my f*cking ear lopes hurt) but reading through the last few pages has been better than all of the NyQuil in the world.

(not really)

Machine 12-29-2014 10:31 AM

Wow these last pages were great that's a great thing to wake up to in the morning.

The Batlord 12-29-2014 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machine (Post 1530235)
Wow these last pages were great that's a great thing to wake up to in the morning.

Just be glad you get to wake up at all. Some people don't have feet.

Machine 12-29-2014 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1530238)
Just be glad you get to wake up at all. Some people don't have feet.

:laughing:

Josef K 12-29-2014 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1530238)
Just be glad you get to wake up at all. Some people don't have feet.

This is so insensitive that my other foot just fell off.

Chula Vista 12-29-2014 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josef K (Post 1530252)
This is so insensitive that my other foot just fell off.

You have feet?


The Batlord 12-29-2014 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josef K (Post 1530252)
This is so insensitive that my other foot just fell off.

Just walk it off and you'll be alright.

Josef K 12-29-2014 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1530253)
You have feet?


Well, not anymore.

Trollheart 12-29-2014 11:52 AM

Gotta preface this with a sort of apology: this response is long and quotes many posts. See, when you're stuck over the unfashionable side of the world where the time is all wrong (yeah Batty I know!) you wake up to see all the discussion that has been going on for hours and hours while you were asleep, and by the time you've read through like THIRTY ****ING PAGES of posts, marking the ones you want to respond to, well, you've got one long-ass post!

Nevertheless, there are things I wish to respond to here, some serious, some in no way so, and as I've only just now got to the last post here is where I go in...

Note: Another apology if I'm opening up or commenting on topics deemed to be closed: you can't tell an Irishman the bar is closing! :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth (Post 1528548)
you guys know the whole forum format is pretty much on its last legs. shouldn't be so picky when it comes to users. unless she did something really ****ed i'm wondering what get's you banned for life lol.

just my honest opinion, not like i give a **** if you let sansa post or not cause i found her irritating a lot of the time tbh.

I think the lively, if at times unproductive discussion here disproves that, and I have never heard that forums are on the way out. What do you mean, you have no cassettes for my 8-track?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josef K (Post 1528585)
I'm on a phone so I can't respond to this as thoroughly as I'd like, but very briefly, three responses to your last point. First, I have no idea how much money you have, but it isn't necessarily the case that a Republican government means lower taxes for you. To some extent it's an issue of what's spent where, and if you'd like a tiny bit less spent on the military and a tiny bit more spent on helping those in need, I'd suggest voting for the Democrats. Second, the government has the means to do good far beyond what you do. This isn't to belittle anything you do to help people, but the government has the ability to do things that you simply can't. Third, to this argument about how it isn't real good being done because your heart isn't in it, try telling that to the people (hint: everyone) who are helped by tax revenue. "Well, I would have loved for your kids to have schools that aren't falling apart, for your roads to not be filled with potholes, for you to be able to feed your family, but I thought tax money wouldn't actually make a difference unless my heart was really in it."

Tl;dr: You might have the privilege of saying you don't want to pay taxes because you don't think you do good by paying them, but I'm telling you that none of this is meaningless to the people who are helped.

Of course, all of this assumes that your thoughts on the two parties, which I disagree with, are right, but whatever.

While I don't agree with anyone taking Roxy to task over her politics, this is an incredibly well-written piece from, let's remember, someone who has yet to hit fifteen. :clap:
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1528591)
My solution is thus: contact aliens and sell Briks into slavery in exchange for a star cruiser. Then we all become space pirates.

The solution to the world's problems in two sentences. How does he do it?
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1528594)
Nobody's jumping your ****. It's all Sansa's fault. Go kill her. Leave my balls uncastrated. :shycouch:

(Yeah, I stole TH's emoticon. No regrets.)

No problems, as long as I get my usual thirty percent royalties...

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth (Post 1528675)
whoa just read the last couple pages. i was the one who pmed roxy asking her if she's a republican basically cause i was curious about the sansa ban and i heard it had something to do with that. then that reminded me of the time i said if i was rich i'd say **** the poor and vote republican and roxy scolded me. so yea asked her about it. wasn't really much of an attack tbh i didn't expect this reaction. oh well, you know how women get.

I know it's been said before but: oh dear...
Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyislingering (Post 1528993)
I'm really super sensitive to cigarette smoke (plus the shit just grosses me out) but even I think that she could have just gone to a different area of the house OR CLOSED THE FUCKING WINDOW to avoid it.

Try having to hold the cigarette and ashtray for your sister while she smokes, trying not to blow the smoke in your face while you choke. Be thankful you only have to suffer short periods of smoke inhalation: I have to go through that at least five times a day, and I HATE smoking!!!
Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterBaggins (Post 1529036)
Even though I have absolutely no idea how any of you people act, I'm going to assume that you're all terrible and deserve no sex for months on end.
Unless you pay me money.

But I'm looking forwards to getting to know the lot of you lunatics. The normal people, I'm not interested in.

I like this guy
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1529170)
You go *splash* in the water. Which is under bridges.

And if you hit hard enough and explode, you also go splash!
Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterBaggins (Post 1529187)
What's your tombstone going to say?

'Here Lies *******
**** you, I had an amazing time'

Here lies Trollheart. Actually, here lies some old homeless guy: he's still out there, having faked his death. Bwa-hah-h ---" (not enough room on the tombstone)...
Quote:

Originally Posted by Machine (Post 1529202)
Can someone make a thread about what our tombstones would read if they haven't already because these are great.

Will do
Quote:

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali (Post 1529304)
Ladyislingering:
You've got a huge self image issue you need to work out. All I see you doing is putting yourself down. I don't know how Ki can stand it, much less the rest of us having to endure you feeling sorry for yourself. You're better than you think you are. Try to invest in that possibility for once.

Vegangelica:
I'm really really intending on getting that mix breakdown for you. I'm sorry for being so late, but it's really REALLY a lot of work! Much more than the mix itself. Anyway, I think your music is pretty good and I'm glad to have an opportunity to be involved with it even on strictly an experimental level.

Vanilla:
You can improve your face by drawing your eyebrows less close together. Let's say, no eyebrows crossing the nose width barrier? Just a thought. Also the red lipstick is a bit much. Otherwise, I miss talking to you. CAN'T IMAGINE WHY YOU DON'T TALK TO ME ANYMORE. lol... Seriously, don't worry, I mean no harm.
I had a long response prepared for this, but given that a) you'd just give me the same sort of non-response you did before and I don't want to fight with you and b) the issue is sort of closed, let me just say this:
Jess (both of them) are the most beautiful creatures with or without makeup, because underneath (as well as outwardly of course) they are shining examples of what it means to be a human being. Also, they're both incredibly hot. :shycouch:
Batlord:
I dunno man, I like you. Fuck off.

Trollheart:
Ah you. You. You're such a darling. Love the effort. You're a boon to this site, but only if you stick to talking about music rather than having opinions about basically anything else. Still, you're grand. Let's have an awkward high-five some day.

Briks:
I remember this one video I saw of you. After that, I basically think you're crazy.

Saw James recently. Glad he's back. Was always a cool kid.

Um, I don't know what else to put here. Fuck off?

Noted: I will henceforth put forward no opinion on anything but music.
Note: the above statement is a lie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1529430)
Trollheart - You reviewed my band. You're pretty cool.

Pet_Sounds - You're going to review my band. You're pretty cool.

Mondo Bungle - Trouble Salad is some good shit dude.

Machine - Machine+'s latest release is pretty sweet man.

Chula Vista - I get the feeling you're a good guitarist but I haven't heard any of your stuff. Also, you seem to be a little click happy on the "new thread" button.

Plankton - Is definitely a G at guitar, I liked your homage to Hagrid especially.

Frownland - You're in one of my favourite bands, you're intelligent, you're funny, you're incredibly attractive, and oh so humble.

Thanks man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla (Post 1529753)
It's funny because you on one hand want to give me advice so that I will then change my appearance and care what you think but on the other hand you will mock me for caring too much what a stranger thinks of me. I really don't care what you or anyone else thinks I should look like, I am strongly against people mocking women's looks. You are trying to not look like the person who said I look like a tranny but sorry it's too late for that.

You don't. Or if you do, the most beautiful and sexy tranny ever. I should hope to meet someone as beautiful...
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla (Post 1529767)
I'm against people critizing women for looking the way they want to. People might not look good in your eyes but that's not up to you to decide. Many women are insecure as it is with societies expectation of what beauty is let alone people they know critizing them.

Exactly
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1529788)
I'm old school.

Dudes should go out of their way to respect girls.

You're my kind of guy
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth (Post 1529817)
imo...

nobody gets offended when ladyis--- says she doesn't find batlord sexually appealing (sorry ladyis-- and batlord i'm honestly not trying to throw you under the bus on purpose it's just a useful example). i don't really get the difference between commenting on someone's looks and commenting on their sex appeal in general. it's the same game you're playing at the end of the day.

i guess it really boils down to... women want to have their cake and eat it too. they want their primary value to be sex appeal while still getting to resent that men overlook their other qualities.


personally if a girl doesn't like my looks i won't feel great about it but at the end of the day as long as i can find other ones that i like who like me back i don't care that much tbh. it's not the most important thing to me. i will genuinely get more of a hurt ego if i sense someone way smarter than me condescending me rather than someone condescending my looks cause intelligence is really more important to me at the end of the day. that's just my criteria. everybody has theirs. it just seems like 90% women have looks as their main criteria while pretending not to.

...imo.

That's different: LiL and Batty have a banter thing going, they both know where they stand. TMK this is not the case with FD and Vanilla.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla (Post 1529819)
I didn't start it first of all and we were having a discussion that needed to be talked about as its the elephant in the room.

What have you got against elephants?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr_13 (Post 1529840)
I sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of soaring over the oilfields dropping hot sticky loads on disgusting foreigners. People say to me that a person being a helicopter is Impossible and I'm ****ing retarded but I don't care, I'm beautiful. I'm having a plastic surgeon install rotary blades, 30 mm cannons and AMG-114 Hellfire missiles on my body. From now on I want you guys to call me "Apache" and respect my right to kill from above and kill needlessly. If you can't accept me you're a heliphobe and need to check your vehicle privilege. Thank you for being so understanding.

This, were it in a journal, would be my Post of the Week. Superb. :clap:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1529943)
JWB: I can't tell if you're attempting to troll sometimes or if you're for real and that should make you feel bad.

Freebase Dali: I sometimes think you're a lot like what I would be at your age. **** does it make me depressed.

Vanilla: Not hot but it would be if you talked more about music.

Mondo Bungle: Poseur.

Lord Larehip: tl;dr but probably some racist undertones in that wall of text.

mordwyr: I don't like your alphabetical system. Stop that ****.

The Batlord: Deadpool and Manowar are cooler than you. Holy **** that should make you depressed.

LiL: Quit whining and do your ****ing job.

Trollheart: tl;dr but probably some bad jokes and a band I'm not into.

This guy totally gets me. (Gets me arrested..) ;)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wolverinewolfweiselpigeon (Post 1529953)
I was given one for calling someone a d1ck.

Was it Urban? :rofl:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr_13 (Post 1529974)
Hello, I am currently 15 years old and I want to become a walrus. I know there’s a million people out there just like me, but I promise you I’m different. On December 14th, I’m moving to Antartica; home of the greatest walruses. I’ve already cut off my arms, and now slide on my stomach everywhere I go as training. I may not be a walrus yet, but I promise you if you give me a chance and the support I need, I will become the greatest walrus ever. If you have any questions or maybe advice, just inbox me. Thank you all so much ~~

Man, I thought you were an attack helicopter?? Why can't anyone these days just be happy in their skin?
Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1529988)
Vanilla is blind as a bat. Put on some damn glasses! Why not always wear them? Glasses are hawt.

A very sexy bat.

That's it. I'm done. You're probably all in bed by now anyway....

The Batlord 12-29-2014 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart
That's different: LiL and Batty have a banter thing going, they both know where they stand.

Yeah: she wants to give me head, and I want to eat ice cream. I think the two can go together quite nicely.

Chula Vista 12-29-2014 12:30 PM

Again, :rofl:

Urban Hat€monger ? 12-29-2014 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1530266)

Was it Urban? :rofl:

Why me?

Trollheart 12-29-2014 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ? (Post 1530292)
Why me?

Isn't your name
Spoiler for Urban's real name?:
Richard
?

Neapolitan 12-29-2014 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1530238)
Just be glad you get to wake up at all. Some people don't have feet.

That reminds me of a story my shop teacher use to tell the class. He said "class let me tell you a story there was a yardstick that use to complain he had no shoes, untill he met a meter stick that had no feet."

Josef K 12-29-2014 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan (Post 1530371)
That reminds me of a story my shop teacher use to tell the class. He said "class let me tell you a story there was a yardstick that use to complain he had no shoes, untill he met a meter stick that had no feet."

It's funny because neither yardsticks nor metersticks have shoes or feet.

Blarobbarg 12-29-2014 07:52 PM

I really like a good majority of the people on this site, but I truly think that Trollheart is the single most important member of the board, in the sense that the dude does more every day to keep this place alive than most of us do in weeks. I disagree with almost every one of his musical opinions and think most of what he listens to is dreadful, but seriously, this place would go dead were it not for his relentless passion, kindness, intelligence, and wit. Never leave, man.

Zhanteimi 12-29-2014 08:10 PM

^What a kind, thoughtful thing to write!

Pet_Sounds 12-29-2014 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josef K (Post 1530069)
LiL: Cool person, fun in plug, but holds a sort of pointless grudge against mordwyr for no apparent reason.

Overcast: Has pretty good taste but needs to either listen to music less often or stop pretending he listens to as much add he says. Seriously, his last list of albums he listened to in a day was way more than 24 hours.

Pet_Sounds: Canadian.

Eh?

Chula Vista 12-29-2014 10:18 PM

I love Trollheart!

Wpnfire 12-29-2014 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1528727)
Then we'll sell Wpnfire. No one likes him anyway. It is agreed.

Batlord: Wish he'd stop being a megadouche.

Batlord: Isn't nearly as funny as he thinks he is.

Batlord: die. (relax Nea, I'm totally serious.)

TheBig3 12-29-2014 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista (Post 1530253)
You have feet?


Can some of you British folk explain to me what the defining qualities of a person from Yorkshire would be? I ask primarily because I love Stephen Dillane, and I'm told he's from there.

But wtf do I know?

Edit:

Hahaha, I went googling for funsies. This guy is ****ing Stannis.


Isbjørn 12-30-2014 02:13 AM

Wpnfire: A real meanie. Has made me cry several times during the past week.

Oriphiel 12-30-2014 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth (Post 1528626)
i can't find specific data at the moment but i know for a fact that rapmusic.com was at one point one of the internet's highest traffick forums... today it is dead.

ebauamsworld was once a big one too... also dead.

ebaunation flourished for a little while... now similarly dead

killermovies was even a decent sized forum... now practically a ghost town.

maybe tomorrow i will have the energy to search up some article for you with figures and ****..but i am pretty confident that this is a dying medium.

There was once this great civilization called the Roman Empire, and it was one of the largest empires the world has ever seen. Now they're nowhere to be found. The British Empire is gone as well, and the Mongolian Empire has similarly disappeared. Obviously, civilization is on it's way out the door.

Trollheart 12-30-2014 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blarobbarg (Post 1530435)
I really like a good majority of the people on this site, but I truly think that Trollheart is the single most important member of the board, in the sense that the dude does more every day to keep this place alive than most of us do in weeks. I disagree with almost every one of his musical opinions and think most of what he listens to is dreadful, but seriously, this place would go dead were it not for his relentless passion, kindness, intelligence, and wit. Never leave, man.

Wow! What an amazing endorsement. Thanks man! That will get me through some of the harder days for sure. You're a hell of a guy, you know that? I may be doing all I can to keep this place going, in my small way, but remember you're the one who went to teach kids in Nicaragua. Can't touch that.

But really, thanks. It means so much. :bowdown:


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