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I think most Beatle haters use their early (62-64) period to set their argument upon. As most fans of popular music know, this was not the most creative time in The Beatles life and they could very well be classed as the the quintessential pop band. However subsequent releases were innovative in terms of studio production, instrument manipulation, compositional structure and even subtle time changes. I like The Beatles and grew up with them. They are not my favourite band by a long chalk but as a relatively knowledgeable music fan, I tip my hat in their direction of shaping the popular musical landscape forever.

There are definitely bands around at that time that were more avant garde or experimental (13th floor elevators, Frank Zappa etc) yet The Beatles turned their back on easy two minute pop tunes and experimented with sound and what music could be within a relatively commercial context.

I respect any fan that does'nt like The Beatles but who appreciates their contribution to music. When someone can constantly say that they are lame without really providing anything that may change my stance on my views, then I can only assume that they know nothing about the complexities of music and that they are only judging music purely on an aural level and not grasping the whole asthetic of what music is.

Oomph, you are a complete arse and I have no trepidation in saying this. Your arguments are hollow and infantile and I cannot take ANY comparison you give between Godsmack and The Beatles and guess what.....I own 2 Godsmack albums!

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Originally Posted by Alfred (Post 478995)

Well, it's not lame, but it's still pretty crappy.

Not lame? Are we watching the same videos?

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Originally Posted by Oomph! (Post 478992)

Video Oomph! - INRI vs JAHWE - [Live] - oomph, inri, jahwe, live, Festival - Dailymotion Share Your Videos

I don't know how good the quality of your speakers are, but I have a decent stereo with nice sub-wofers, and when you have these guys blasting you'll want to head bang until you black-out. That's what good music does, it actually fucking moves you.

That BS pop garbage you guys listen to makes you tap your fingers at best compared to bands like this.

:laughing:

You act like what you listen to is so underground.

You know, one thing that metalheads, indie fans and people like yourself who still think its 1999 all seem to have in common is your distate for mainstream pop.

Funny because I think pop has a lot more to offer than most genres, including metal. I'd take my Michael Jackson, Fleetwood Mac, Elton John, Queen, Todd Rundgren and Stevie Wonder over your nu metal crap any day of the week.

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Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent (Post 478988)

Angst and anxiety are actually two very different things.

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And I used to prefix "pseudo" because what Industrial means to me is a genre of mechanical-sounding noise and drone influenced directly by the noise experiments of the futurists and musique concrete, such as Throbbing Gristle, Nurse With Wound, Cabaret Voltaire and NON. Bands such as Oomph or Ministry or NIN, who basically take Coil's innovations and water it down with heavy metal are, to me, pseudo-Industrial.

You aren't very familiar with Oomph then, because Oomph's use of the synthasizer easily competes with even top tier industrial pioneers in terms of complexity, thickness, skill, etc.

Oomph! Filthy Playground - Song - MP3 Stream on IMEEM Music
OOMPH! Decubitus Vulgaris - Song - MP3 Stream on IMEEM Music

There's a bunch of other songs I' give you but theey aren't uploaded. Also, don't just listen to the first 20 seconds, songs like these progress drastically.

Also, industrial metal is 'false industrial'.

Also, only laymen use the genre 'industrial metal' to describe Oomph. They are NHD, Electronica, EBM, Hard Rock, Heavy Metal, and a bunch of other things that we haven't invented names for.

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And you're right, I didn't have an argument. If anything I was trying to deconstruct your objective approach to writing off certain bands.

at least you admit it, unlike most of the people here.

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Originally Posted by boo boo (Post 479004)

:laughing:

You act like what you listen to is so underground.

No... I don't...never said any such thing.

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You know, one thing that metalheads, indie fans and people like yourself who still think its 1999 all seem to have in common is your distate for mainstream pop.

Your point?

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Funny because I think pop has a lot more to offer than most genres, including metal.

It doesn't.

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I'd take my Michael Jackson, Fleetwood Mac, Elton John, Queen, Todd Rundgren and Stevie Wonder over your nu metal crap any day of the week.

I don't listen to 'nu metal crap'.

Also, you can keep them.

And at least 1999 was within a decade ago, screw your bland, BORING fucking 19970's elevator music.

Uh, yah, if you're saying that old music sucks, then listen to the song Lark Tongues In Aspic Pt. II by King Crimson, 1973. Lol.
Edit: I love how Oomph! is taking so long to respond to my post.

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Originally Posted by Oomph! (Post 479007)

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
angst Audio Help /ɑŋkst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ahngkst] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural äng·ste Audio Help /ˈɛŋkstə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[engk-stuh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation. a feeling of dread, anxiety, or anguish.

You aren't very familiar with Oomph then, because Oomph's use of the synthasizer easily competes with even top tier industrial pioneers in terms of complexity, thickness, skill, etc.

Anxiety is a feeling of concern or dread over possible future situations. Angst is a pervading despair over your current situation. So you might be anxious about a test you have tomorrow, but if you're going through an episode of angst you're just dwelling on all the multitudinous woes of adolescence. Angst is not just a type of anxiety, but takes on a very specific connotation especially when one refers to "teenage angst."

I'd say in terms of familiarity, it's you who isn't too familiar with "top tier industrial pioneers" since most of them didn't use synthesizers, and those who did used it mainly to generate drones and noise. Drones are the opposite of complexity and neither drones nor noise require a whole lot of skill. Early industrial had absolutely nothing to do with skill or technical ability, or, straight out of the horse's mouth:

"And he printed this page, learn 3 chords, form a band. Then, in the next issue, he interviewed me and I said, why learn 3 chords? Why learn any chords?" -Genesis P-Orridge

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Originally Posted by Oomph! (Post 479007)

Also, industrial metal is 'false industrial'.

Also, only laymen use the genre 'industrial metal' to describe Oomph. They are NHD, Electronica, EBM, Hard Rock, Heavy Metal, and a bunch of other things that we haven't invented names for.

So then... you agree that they are pseudo-Industrial?

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Originally Posted by ProggyMan (Post 479012)

Uh, yah, if you're saying that old music sucks, then listen to the song Lark Tongues In Aspic Pt. II by King Crimson, 1973. Lol.
Edit: I love how Oomph! is taking so long to respond to my post.

or you can just find that one scene in emmanuelle (a softcore french porno from 1974) that has a great visual accompaniment for that same song.

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Originally Posted by ProggyMan (Post 478998)

You know what Oomph? If you want to talk about experimentation, technical ability, and complicated song structures why don't you listen to bands like King Crimson, Genesis, The Mars Volta and Porcupine Tree?

I have nothing against proggresive rock. How about proggressive metal?

Skeksis Tab by Strapping Young Lad @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

Uh, way to dodge my point.