whogivesaflux

If that's the case you were REALLY off base via The Velvet Underground reference.

Friend, lets bring this full circle to a common ground of intelligent conversation. I took the time to defined clearly what I was referring to via the jargon I used. Maybe that's a misconception on my behalf. I will give you that much. But if all you can do as a music appreciator is be short, sarcastic and withdrawn, how could I possibly see the matter through your ears so to speak?

I have been searching and searching for an enthusiastic and INTELLIGENT music appreciation community. You wanna know what the two biggest draw backs that have hindered that process so far are? <whether you do or don't> Those two specific handicaps are comprised of age differences (most people under 18 live to insult themselves on message boards, not all though.) and cliques. Thankfully I haven't got a strong whiff of either here yet.

If you REALLY care about music AND communication, you'll avoid dismissive one sentence remarks that attempt to justify your brevity and take the time to honestly spell yourself out intelligently.

What the hell else is personal passion/special interest based discussion for?


Might try actually defending your position there boo boo.

No edge for me friend. Little groove and very minimal. Lame IMO. About as energetic as a boiled cabbage.

lucifer_sam

The Velvet Underground were one of the first to use music as an art form rather than a compositional arrangement. (Which is what Andy Warhol intended when he produced The Velvet Underground & Nico). If that doesn't qualify as art rock, "art pop," whatever, then you need to re-evaluate what you think it means.

I'm being sarcastic and withdrawn because you're not making any collective sense.

The people here on MusicBanter know what they're talking about. And they don't bullshit about it. Age-elitism isn't a great way to make friends, either. Although I'm only nineteen, Proggyman, one of the youngest members, is just as intelligent and cogent as most of the old farts here. I don't pretend to be the most musically knowledgable or intelligent, but I have enough sense to not make unwarranted and unsupported abjections.

Okay, let me spell it out, then. In NO way is Radiohead "art pop." Their music expresses a great discord from traditional methods of songwriting, but the music is lyrically, compositionally, and musically structured, like everything else out there. Furthermore, Radiohead has come a looooong way and continue to reinvent themselves on every album. They were built upon an alternative rock single and elected to diversify and produce different music each time they went into the studio. They are overrated by some people, but they are in no way a poor band, bland, tedious, what-fucking-ever.

Exactly. So don't take offense when we call you out on bullshit.

End Game.

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whogivesaflux

Man, you talk about self contrived nonsense. Bull**** according to who? You have provided ZERO references to back up what you are contending. ZERO.

Incidentally Art Rock has NOTHING to do with your spouted nonsense about "art used in conjunction" with a music group. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Art Rock was a term used to denote the most elaborate of PROGRESSIVE ROCK groups like Yes & ELP.

Man, it's not me here that isn't making sense or spouting bull****. People NEED to stop being defensive and start making with the logic. I am still pretty awed by the Urban Hate person. Now that's some tricky logic but you'll understand me better when I reply.

lucifer_sam

Ahhh, the glory of Wikipedia. And the fallacy of people that read it too quickly and skim too unthoroughly...

"The Golden Age of Rock lectures define art rock as 'a piece of music in the rock idiom that is appealing more intellectually or musically, that is, not formulated along pop lines for mass consumption.'"

I never said it was. In the case of VU, that's what they intended. However, art rock also defines a genre of a "more mainstream compositional nature, leading to experiemntation in this genre." This brings along Roxy Music, Brian Eno, David Bowie...and holy shit! The Velvet Underground.

Yes, he's a magnificent specimen, isn't he?

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whogivesaflux

You don't have a clue what you are talking about. Now you have clumsily back tracked across your own words. Pathetic. Care to try and justify your ignorance anymore?


Sure my hypocritically acclaimed buffoon. Just as soon as you do. None have been flung at me, right? You are are a JOKE.

lucifer_sam

Now you're just trying to piss me off. I have no intention to start a flame war. I have expressed a valid argument (supported by real sources), and you haven't objectively refuted it yet. If you want to start a pissy skirmish, I suggest you seek a berth elsewhere.

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whogivesaflux

What have you proposed exactly? You have attempted to correct me and made an ass out of yourself. You contend that The Velvet Underground were Art Rock? That's NOT TRUE. Period. Look up the accepted definition instead of finding it necessary to paraphrase some off the beaten path eccentric scholar to make your point. Art Rock is SOLELY a term that pertains to certain Progressive Rock acts from the 70s. The notion that it refers to some avant or experimental pop bent is nonsense. More pseudo intellectual pushing on behalf of the corporate machine to get their mods in the loop so to speak. That's when the phrase was coined by the press and those are the bands it referred to. Which The Velvet Underground were in no way a part of despite your best attempts to make them seem as though they were.

Now Art Pop as I see it is all about the pseudo intellectual college campus clique bands like Radiohead, Ween, Guided By Voices, Stereo Lab, Cornelius, Tricky, et infinitum as opposed to the their 70s counter parts like Glam Pop artists Bowie & Roxy.

Just more pseudo intellectual pretend sophisticated pop (albeit many a great tune from some of these, not RADIOHEAD however) with a few new decorative twists. More the "in crowd" thing as it's constantly rehashed. Anything but progressive sir. Anything but.

FaSho

dude first of all i havent agreed with anything youve posted yet....but this ones the worst. im only ****in' 13 and i can hold my own against all these guys without "insuting myself"


and thats just about message boards some of the things you've said about music are so obliviusly wrong that i cant believe someone actually has that opinion!

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