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Old 02-10-2009, 10:56 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CanwllCorfe View Post
The program really can change your brainwaves, it's just a matter of the "effect" you get.
This is an unsourced statement which is a no-no .. And using I-Doser propaganda as a source (if you're thinking of that) would also be a no-no. You don't know that it alters your brainwaves. You believe that it does. If you wanna claim that it actually has a physiological effect, you should find a serious source to back it up.

Anyways, even registered users on i-doser.com are conflicted about this. Check out the poll from their forums -> I-Doser.com :: View topic - The Official "Does It Work?" Poll

And they want you to pay for this service .. I would be sceptical.
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Old 02-10-2009, 10:57 AM   #12 (permalink)
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This is an unsourced statement which is a no-no .. And using I-Doser propaganda as a source (if you're thinking of that) would also be a no-no. You don't know that it alters your brainwaves. You believe that it does. If you wanna claim that it actually has a physiological effect, you should find a serious source to back it up.

Anyways, even registered users on i-doser.com are conflicted about this. Check out the poll from their forums -> I-Doser.com :: View topic - The Official "Does It Work?" Poll

And they want you to pay for this service .. I would be sceptical.
I'm totally with you on this one toretorden.
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:29 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Who needs this shit , I own 4 Nurse With Wound albums.
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Old 02-10-2009, 02:10 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Yeah I'm skeptical about anything charging as much as they are. The "only authorized guide." I'm extremely interested in trying it, just not in paying for it.
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:42 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by toretorden View Post
This is an unsourced statement which is a no-no .. And using I-Doser propaganda as a source (if you're thinking of that) would also be a no-no. You don't know that it alters your brainwaves. You believe that it does. If you wanna claim that it actually has a physiological effect, you should find a serious source to back it up.

Anyways, even registered users on i-doser.com are conflicted about this. Check out the poll from their forums

And they want you to pay for this service .. I would be sceptical.
Sources? Alright. This comes straight out of the I-Doser guide, written by the man who created the concept. This section is "how it works", if you want the next section which is about how it affects you, I can post that as well. As for some people and it not working, of course it doesn't work on everyone! Tylenol has never had an effect on me, regardless of how much I would like it to. Another thing is, the brain is sensitive to any outside stimuli. So even light getting into your eyes can effect it. The more you can focus and have no disruptions, the more the beat will have an effect. And some people get no effect at all, even IF they do it right. It's different for everyone, just as everything is.

"How it Works

When signals of two different frequencies are presented, one to each ear, the brain detects phase differences between these signals. 'Under natural circumstances a detected phase difference would provide directional information. The brain processes this anomalous information differently when these phase differences are heard with stereo heaphones or speakers. A perceptual integration of the two signals takes place, producing the sensation of a third "beat" frequency. The difference between the signals waxes and wanes as the two different input frequencies mesh in and out of phase. As a result of these constantly increasing and decreasing differences, an amplitude-modulated standing wave - the binaural beat - is heard. The binaural beat is percieved as a fluctuating rhythm at the frequency of the difference between the two auditory inputs. Evidence suggests that the binaural beats are generated in the brainstem's superior olivary nucles, the first site of contralateral integration in the auditory system (Oster, 1973). Studies also suggest that the frequency-following response originates from the inferior colliculus (Smith, Marsh, & Brown, 1975)" (Owens & Atwater, 1995). This activity is conducted to the cortex where it can be recorded by scalp electrodes. "

Oster, G. (1973). Auditory beats in the brain. Scientific American
Owens, J.E. & Atwater, F.H. (1995). EEG correlates of an induced altered state of consciousness: "mind awake/body asleep".
Smith, J. C., Marsh, J. T., & Brown, W. S. (1975). Far-field recorded frequency-following responses: Evidence for the locus of brainstem sources. Electroencephalography and Clinical Neurophysiology
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Sources? Alright. This comes straight out of the I-Doser guide, written by the man who created the concept.
I think you missed toretorden's point. He's looking for third-party sources.
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:50 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanwllCorfe
This comes straight out of the I-Doser guide, written by the man who created the concept.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toretorden
And using I-Doser propaganda as a source (if you're thinking of that) would also be a no-no.
If you copied and pasted that from the I-Doser webpage, then you're taking information from the people who sell the product. They are, of course, biased. They wouldn't say that it doesn't work.

And what you posted doesn't even explain how it works. It only describes how this "binaural beat" supposedly can be percieved. It does not explain how this can mimic the effects of drugs like cocaine or hallucinogenics.
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:14 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Yeah I know that's the next section. I'll post that too. What do you mean they're biased? Did you read the sources? They knew all about binaural beats before the guy that created I-Doser knew they existed. You're acting like all these people (who, again, wrote these things WAY before I-Doser was conceived) were all "in on it". Of course he wrote things from people who say it works! He DID say at the very beginning of the guide that it isn't for everyone. If you don't believe it works, great! That's fine, if you believe it can, then try it! He includes 2 free doses and if you don't feel anything, then don't try any more.

Altered States

Binaural beats can easily be heard at the low frequencies (<30 Hz) that are characteristic of the EEG spectrum (Oster, 1973). This perceptual phenomenon of binaural beating and the objective measurement of the frequency-following response (Hink, Kodera, Yamada, Kaga, & Suzuki, 1980) suggest conditions that facilitate entrainment of brain waves and altered states of consciousness. There have been numerous anecdotal reports and a growing number of research efforts reporting changes in consciousness associated with binaural-beats. "The subjective effect of listening to binaural beats may be relaxing or stimulating, depending on the frequency of the binaural-beat stimulation" (Owens & Atwater, 1995). Binaural beats in the delta (1 to 4 Hz) and theta (4 to 9 Hz) ranges have been associated with reports of relaxed, meditative, and creative states (Hiew, 1995), and used as an aid to falling alseep. Binaural beats in the alpha frequencies (8 to 12 Hz) have increased alpha brain waves (Foster, 1990) and binaural beats in the beta frequencies (typically 16 to 24 Hz) have been associated with reports of increased concentration or alertness (Monroe, 1985) and improved memory (Kennerly, 1994). Passively listening to binaural beats may not spontaneously propel you into an altered state of conciousness. One's subjective experience in response to binaural-beat stimulation may also be influenced by a number of meditating factors. For example, the willingness and ability of the listener to relax and focus attention may contribute to binaural-beat effectiveness in the inducing state changes. "Ultraradian rythms in the nervous system are characterized by periodic changes in arousal and states of consciousness (Rossi, 1986; Shannahoff-Khalsa, 1991; Webb & Dube, 1981). These naturally occurring shifts may underlie the anecodtal reports of fluctuations in the effectiveness of binaural beats. External factors are also thought to play roles in mediating the effects of binaural beats" (Owens & Atwater, 1995). The perception of a binaural beat is, for example, said to be heightened by the addition of white noise to the carrier signal (Oster, 1973), so white noise is often used in the background. "Music, relaxation exercises, guided imagery, and verbal suggestion have all been used to enhance the state-changing effects of the binaural beat" (Owens & Atwater, 1995). Other practices such as humming, toning, breathing exercises, autogenic training, and/or biofeedback can also used to interrpt the homeostasis of resistant subjects (Tart, 1975).
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:18 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I prefer real drugs to fake ones, but that's just me.
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:20 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I prefer real drugs to fake ones, but that's just me.
To each their own

I actually don't like Beer, and my last name is Beers. and I am half Irish, half German. Something isn't right
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