What Is Your Definition Of A "Sell Out"?

Engine · 06-16-2010, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clutnuckle

I'd consider Rivers Cuomo one of two things -- He's either a sell-out who purposely makes such terrible music now to appeal to twelve-year olds, or he's simply gone through some sort of mental deprivation that makes him think what he's doing is still good. Sell-out or idiot, your choice!

Haha I agree. I actually did love and still love the first Weezer album (although people made fun of me for that even in 1994)

I always wondered what exactly motivates that guy. He's definitely got a knack for making rock songs - but why does he do it that way?

CanwllCorfe · 06-16-2010, 07:46 PM

I don't think I've ever called any band/artist a sell out. I usually just think of it as a term for an artist or band that's left a fan embittered by their new style or popularity.

**Janszoon** · 06-16-2010, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanwllCorfe

I don't think I've ever called any band/artist a sell out. I usually just think of it as a term for an artist or band that's left a fan embittered by their new style or popularity.

I think I used to call bands sellouts back when I was about 14. Now I just say they suck if I think they suck.

CanwllCorfe · 06-16-2010, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I think I used to call bands sellouts back when I was about 14. Now I just say they suck if I think they suck.

I don't think I was ever familiar with the term. I never really liked a band when they were "underground" and then hated them when they become popular. The way I see it, if a band becomes popular they were always destined to be popular. I usually only like a couple songs from a couple albums anyway regardless of when they were released (pre "sellout", after "sellout"). Although on one fateful album I enjoy every song, which is Sortsind's Sår. That just happens to be their only real album

Ah well.

However their videos have a good amount of views on YouTube.. that's not very kvlt.

Engine · 06-16-2010, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I'm willing to bet they at least didn't have to do the hunting or gathering that day. Maybe that was payment enough.

And maybe the ones who got creative are the reason for all those mythological creatures from throughout history.

I certainly would have rather painted caves than chase mastodons off of cliffs or whatever. And the mythological creature thing is certianly true - aren't whole religions based on that kind of thing? But I mean the really creative cavemen who had to paint regular hunting scenes or dragons or demons or whatever was popular at the time - and then at night they were too tired from painting other people's stuff to express some great idea they had.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanwllCorfe

I don't think I've ever called any band/artist a sell out. I usually just think of it as a term for an artist or band that's left a fan embittered by their new style or popularity.

true - it's a weak term. Like how people call songs that they don't like by bands they do like 'filler'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I think I used to call bands sellouts back when I was about 14. Now I just say they suck if I think they suck.

Totally true for me as well. How can we ever know why a band sucks anyway? Maybe they 'sold out' or maybe they just naturally began to suck at some point. I really don't care why. The term 'sellout' is used by people who have sold out expressive language

Freebase Dali · 06-16-2010, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanwllCorfe

I don't think I've ever called any band/artist a sell out. I usually just think of it as a term for an artist or band that's left a fan embittered by their new style or popularity.

Exactly.
But I don't really worry about defining the term 'selling out' at all. If I stop liking a band/artist's music, I simply stop listening to it. I don't stop listening to the music they've made that I do like though.
In one regard, I couldn't care less about the status or the money they make or don't make. If I like the music, that's all that matters.

Let's take Pendulum for instance (since between me and you, we could relate on the Electronic end of the spectrum)... I used to listen to them before they got really big and started deviating from their original style so much, but I don't look at their deviation as a result of fame... instead, I see the fame as a result of the deviation because they've made their music more accessible to the mainstream. Regardless of the motive behind the change, the change in the music itself is what I don't like because that's the factor affecting me.

The sticky part of it, especially with Electronic music, is that evolution is inevitable and encouraged. I like hearing new and creative music. But it's unreasonable to assume that all roads will lead to a destination of your own preference or choosing, so I'm pretty accepting in that regard.
What I don't like, however, is when those changes are made and then serve as enticements for other bands/artists I enjoy who may then follow the same formula simply because it's successful.

Ultimately, I know success is necessary to survive as an artist, but it can seem like a losing battle when all the success hinges on the opinion of a mainstream audience you may not agree with.

CanwllCorfe · 06-16-2010, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

Exactly.
But I don't really worry about defining the term 'selling out' at all. If I stop liking a band/artist's music, I simply stop listening to it. I don't stop listening to the music they've made that I do like though.
In one regard, I couldn't care less about the status or the money they make or don't make. If I like the music, that's all that matters.

Let's take Pendulum for instance (since between me and you, we could relate on the Electronic end of the spectrum)... I used to listen to them before they got really big and started deviating from their original style so much, but I don't look at their deviation as a result of fame... instead, I see the fame as a result of the deviation because they've made their music more accessible to the mainstream. Regardless of the motive behind the change, the change in the music itself is what I don't like because that's the factor affecting me.

The sticky part of it, especially with Electronic music, is that evolution is inevitable and encouraged. I like hearing new and creative music. But it's unreasonable to assume that all roads will lead to a destination of your own preference or choosing, so I'm pretty accepting in that regard.
What I don't like, however, is when those changes are made and then serve as enticements for other bands/artists I enjoy who may then follow the same formula simply because it's successful.

Ultimately, I know success is necessary to survive as an artist, but it can seem like a losing battle when all the success hinges on the opinion of a mainstream audience you may not agree with.

I completely agree. Especially with the bolded part. I was trying to figure out how to explain that point. I think that same thing can be said for a lot of the "sell outs". Lately it seems a lot of Electronic music has almost seemed to lose its boundaries. For example, Trance. Trance was a commercial genre and now it's like an amalgamated version of House, Electro, and some semblance of Trance. Mainly because House and Electro are now the commercial genres of choice. Unfortunately it seems other genres have picked up on this as well and seems like even artists like Noisia are getting in on it. Although, quite awesomely, kickass Ferry Corsten was making Electro influenced Trance all the way back in 03 so he was way ahead of the curve.

But, as you said, Electronic music is a sort of love/hate thing. There's always innovation and evolution so you don't get bored, but then the artists you've come to enjoy will always somehow change and not always for the better. You can never really "expect" anything from anyone.

Rhovanion · 06-17-2010, 07:49 AM

For me a sell out would be a band or artist that used to make the kind of music they and the fans wanted to hear regardless of style, genre or popularity, but is now only going for the kind of music that radios and mainstream media think is "in".

tormusic · 06-17-2010, 10:25 AM

The concept of "Selling out" is an interesting one. I remember as a teen hating any band that sold out. As I got older and into the music scene I realized that most bands don't make the money that I thought they did when I was younger. You would be surprised by how many of the smaller bands that you thought have "made it" that still have to work day jobs in order to pay rent.

As sad as it is to see a band sell out, many of them don't have a choice if they want to continue making their art.

Sadly the music industry is a business and if you don't play the game......You will find yourself out of business.

mitchellpk123 · 06-18-2010, 08:58 PM

I set a sell-out as someone who has left to pursue their ideas more public to make more money or make more money easier.A personal definition is someone who has changed behavior to please someone else at the expense of their own.Behavioral change for good or for the benefit of a group can not meet this definition.

06-16-2010, 07:46 PM	#2 (permalink)
CanwllCorfe Quiet Man in the Corner Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Pocono Mountains Posts: 2,480	I don't think I've ever called any band/artist a sell out. I usually just think of it as a term for an artist or band that's left a fan embittered by their new style or popularity. __________________ Your eyes were never yet let in to see the majesty and riches of the mind, but dwell in darkness; for your God is blind.

06-17-2010, 07:49 AM	#8 (permalink)
Rhovanion Under A Violet Moon Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Winterfell Posts: 65	For me a sell out would be a band or artist that used to make the kind of music they and the fans wanted to hear regardless of style, genre or popularity, but is now only going for the kind of music that radios and mainstream media think is "in". __________________

06-18-2010, 08:58 PM	#10 (permalink)
mitchellpk123 Groupie Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5	I set a sell-out as someone who has left to pursue their ideas more public to make more money or make more money easier.A personal definition is someone who has changed behavior to please someone else at the expense of their own.Behavioral change for good or for the benefit of a group can not meet this definition. __________________ [Link removed by mod, no advertising]

06-17-2010, 10:25 AM	#9 (permalink)
tormusic Groupie Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 7	The concept of "Selling out" is an interesting one. I remember as a teen hating any band that sold out. As I got older and into the music scene I realized that most bands don't make the money that I thought they did when I was younger. You would be surprised by how many of the smaller bands that you thought have "made it" that still have to work day jobs in order to pay rent. As sad as it is to see a band sell out, many of them don't have a choice if they want to continue making their art. Sadly the music industry is a business and if you don't play the game......You will find yourself out of business.