Once again that is a generic definition for what it means to be an Icon because to be an Icon you have to do Iconic things not just be famous

I think to be famous you have to do iconic things to a certain degree. Whether it's as iconic as some other moments is a matter of opinion. It's well documented in this thread that we see it differently so I'm going to stick to my famous=iconic opinion. Note that I did take it beyond just being famous by saying that they keep their household name status even when they're not plastered all over the media like Santana or Ozzy.

Marvin Gaye
 

Marvin Gaye --- Icon/Legend
http://www.okayplayer.com/wp-content...arvin-Gaye.jpg

Iconic Album:
http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/onth...s-going-on.jpg

Iconic songs: Ain't No Mountain High Enough, To Busy Thinking Bout My Baby, Sexual Healing, Ain't That Peculiar, What's Going On, Got to Give it Up Part I&II

Legendary singing duo:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BKSWtfSEkX...errell-002.jpg
Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell

Iconic look:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4...nim-Style3.bmp

My point is, not every famous person will become an Icon like your definition implies.

It takes more than that. I understand that we all have different definitions but its just kinda generic to just say a famous person=an Icon.

And generic=wrong?

I didn't say it was wrong.


In my opinion, your definition of Icon is generic.

But what's bad about being generic? Doesn't that help give us a standard to define things by?

Nothing bad about it just explain your reasoning.

You did not really give reasons for your definition which makes your definition vague and kinda meaningless.

All you did was this e.g. Famous person- Icon


Why do you think being famous alone makes someone an Icon?

Explain your reasoning.

I respectfully disagree.

I don't see how that's vague, you just summed it up yourself so it sounds like you understand it but I've explained it a bunch of times in this thread, how about you explain what an iconic performance, album, or moment is? Because it doesn't seem very consistent wen you talk about Michael Jackson's distinctive outfits as iconic but write off Lady Gaga's as cheap gimmicks, among other things. I heard she releases albums too! What a gimmick whore!

Frownland boo relax.


I have explained countless of times what I feel makes an Icon, Iconic performance, Album etc. I even explain in detail in the original OP post.

So why do you feel I have not explained my point?

You on the other hand have not explained your reasoning.

Once again, can you please elaborate? I am interested in knowing.

I'm just poking fun at you with the last Gaga comment, not angry in the slightest. You pretty much summed it up with famous=icon but (let's go once more) I think that it does go beyond that in that an icon is someone who stays in the public memory without being in the public eye.

You know come to think of it I think these are pretty pointless terms to begin with.

Aw your so cute when your angry

But it is something that they have to that makes them stay in our memory. There has to be some cultural or groundbreaking association that comes apart of pop culture.

It is not just them being in the public eye alone.

Most of the acts that are popular now will just be popular in THIS moment but 50 years from now...probably not.

Decades later, The Beatles, MJ, and so forth are still Icons and still very relevant in today's music scene based on their influence and of course impact.

I don't see that with today's acts.

i'll remember carly rae jepsen in 20 years isn't that enough

Why do you think I'm angry? Where is your evidence to back that up? All you're giving me is a vague depiction. :rolleyes:

Really though, it's just as silly to assume that the artists won't be iconic in the future than to say that they will be. The Beatles were written off by many as a passing fad but they ended up being icons. Unless you wanna give me a ride in your time machine I think judging from today's events is the only way to determine icons. Kanye comes to mind.

Because its fun to mess with you LOL

And I have given a ton of detailed examples and reasoning....you still haven't though.

Why is it silly to assume when none of the current pop stars are Icons?

The Beatles were groundbreaking for their present time AND they also made a lasting impact.

You seem to think Icons only exist in the present tense but their impacts are groundbreaking and culturally significant not just for the present time.


What is Kanye's Icon album?

What is his significant cultural impact on music?

What do we associate with Kanye that is also apart of pop culture?

What makes Kanye an Icon?



You got some splaining to do boo, get to it.

Well saying they won't be iconic in the future is silly because you do not know what the future holds. I've already explained my position and I don't know how to (or why I should) get more detailed than I have, sorry it doesn't do it for you.

These are your criteria for an icon, not mine but here goes anyway.
Kanye's significant albums: College Dropout, My Beautiful Dark Convoluted List of Adjectives, Yeezus.

Musical impact: making popular the use of soul samples as well as the gritty industrial techno hip hop sound of Yeezus.

Iconic moment: 'Imma let you finish'. Memeified, prominently used pop culture reference, even people who have never heard his music know Kanye's an arrogant *******.

Kanye's association outside of pop culture: ****ing what? What does that have to do with anything? What do we associate with Janet Jackson outside of pop culture? Doesn't it become pop culture once we associate the popular icon with it? So many questions, I guess you weren't detailed enough.

What makes him an icon: millions of die hard fan boys, popularity, significant place in the publics mind be it positive or negative, he is a god (his words not mine).

I'd like to note that the only thing I like about Kanye is the production on Yeezus so you're not getting a biased opinion from me.

You said that what makes an Icon to you was a person that is famous and then you went on to say that its silly to imply that none of the pop stars out today will be Icons without no reasoning.

Yes you did need to explain.


You never really explained your criteria in detail which was all I simply asked.


Kanye's significant albums: College Dropout, My Beautiful Dark Convoluted List of Adjectives, Yeezus.


How are these albums Iconic and how have they made a significant impact on music?



Musical impact: making popular the use of soul samples as well as the gritty industrial techno hip hop sound of Yeezus.


Artists have been sampling music before he was born. That is not a groundbreaking significant contribution to music.



Iconic moment: 'Imma let you finish'. Memeified, prominently used pop culture reference, even people who have never heard his music know Kanye's an arrogant *******.


But is this something that is so groundbreaking that it will be remembered 50 years from now?

I don't think it made a cultural impact and I also don't see how that relates to music.





Janet will never have to release another album because her legacy is stamped. She has made iconic albums and has iconic moments that will always been remembered and viewed as an influence. She is still relevant today among st the current popular acts.

I think you are not understanding the questions.



You still have not really explained any significant contributions he has made or groundbreaking things he has done related to his music.

Sampling is not innovative and was done before him and might I add done better.


An example of an Iconic album is Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation. That album broke cultural barriers with its social conscious message, themes, and creative music videos. It is a very influential album till this day all the way down to the look. There hasn't been a female pop star in the last 20 something years that has made an album as socially conscious sense. Madonna hasn't even made a political album as daring as RN.

Oh well I tried. If you don't want to consider Kanye an iconic artist so be it. I'd just like to mention that making something more popular is not the same as inventing it but it's equally as important. But I pose this question to you again: what makes an iconic album?

My criteria is: famous, remaining in the public eye after prime=icon. Sorry if you're not getting that. You don't have to be groundbreaking to do so, just look at the Beatles, Elvis, and Michael Jackson. All were basically revamping old ideas without really doing anything inventive but they're still icons.

Really though, every generation has its icons. Whether or not they hold up to the standards of icons from the past is really irrelevant. I highly doubt that twenty years into the future there aren't going to be playlists of "classics of the 2010s" and people saying that none of the artists of that day compare to Lady Gaga or Skrillex or whatever. I think you're letting your distaste for current mainstream artists cloud how you look at the situation. I don't like them either, but since icon is generally a position that needs to be filled, there's always going to be somebody assuming that role.

Oh yeah, Skrillex is most definitely an icon

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Everyone knows who he is so that's a step in th right direction

I cant name a single janet Jackson song off the top of my head. seriously.

it does seem pretty funny tho where in 30 years there is no artist that anyone remembers from the 2000s. its just an empty cupboard in the musical kitchen

The Beatles wouldn't have been icons if they'd been singing "She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah" in 1969.

Not to mention the role that Kennedy's death played...

I knew this thread would end up like this, oh well, I tried.

And Janet Jackson an Icon?
:laughing:

Ditto

Hello Mr. Urban


How is she not?

I've not seen you make a convincing argument that she is yet.

I have no interest in Janet Jackson, I have no interest in Cyndi Lauper either (another female singer who's been around roughly the same amount of time) yet I could name a hell of a lot more Cyndi Lauper songs than Janet Jackson ones.

Does that mean I think Cyndi Lauper is iconic?
Not at all but I'd say she's at a higher level than Janet Jackson is, and that's without taking into account that Janet Jackson gets a pass already for having that surname.

Rhythm Nation, off the top of my head.

Nasty Boys, off the top of my head.

Just because you have no interest in Janet Jackson does not make her any less Iconic. You seem to not like popular music overall and that is fine but don't be a snob.

I think I have done a good job in showing important Iconic things associated with her, music and just things she has done overall that have been iconic.

A lot of people always use this argument when it comes to Janet but the funny thing is, all the Jackson's have released solo albums so why is that Janet Jackson is the only one that has been successful outside of Michael?

To argue that her last name is why she is successful is absurd and a cop out because if that were case the other Jackson's would have been just as successful but they have not.

Her last name did probably give her a record deal but it most certainly did not make her an Icon. It most certainly is not the reason why she is one of the biggest selling artists of all time. If anything, it probably was much harder for her because of her last name and her more famous brother. She had to prove herself and...she did. She became a superstar and an Icon in her own right.

If her last name is why she is an Icon, why isnt La Toya, Jermaine, Rebbie, etc all solo artist Icons?

Silly argument.

Just because you don't listen to her music or don't want to listen to her music outside of rock doesn't mean she is not an Icon.

Thanks

:laughing: oh the irony.

Meh. Labels suck. Prefer to just enjoy the music than give everything a label. Sorry for not contributing to the thread topic, but I see no reason why people worry or argue about this stuff.

I have provided a ton of reasons for why Janet is an Icon but people continue to say I haven't lol

If you don't think she is an Icon, why don't YOU provide reasons.

I don't know anything about her. I was saying that it was ironic, you saying just because you don't like an artist that it doesn't make them not an icon, which is one of your favourite pasttimes.

No. You've provided your reasons for why you think she is an icon.

She had some really good years there for a while and Rhythm Nation was a pretty important album to a segment when it was released but JJ is not an icon in the truest sense of the word IMO.

Her bother is an icon though.

But there are legitimate objective reasoning for my statement.

I am not saying it because I like her. I am saying it because she has made iconic moments in pop culture that still influences today.

Instead of insisting she is not an Icon, why don't you listen to her music and become educated on her like I did with Tom Waits.

So Rhythm Nation is not an iconic album?

Rhythm Nation is not an Iconic video?

lol ok

I never said she was on the same level as Michael, NO ONE is but that still does not change she is an Icon

You're missing my point. I'm not saying she's not an icon. I'm saying that just because you don't like an artist like Kanye or Lady Gaga doesn't strip them of being icons. I provided you with objective (lulz) information on why they were icons and you were blinded by your dislike for them.

I don't think an artist can be iconic when it's already been established that multiple people can't name a single song by them. Icon is such an intense, loaded word. Not everybody that is famous is an icon, but to be icon you need to be in the public consciousness even today.
And The Bodyguard an iconic moment? That movie is utter gash and I'd be hard pressed to find a person of my generation who has seen. Heck, I'd struggle to find many that even know who Kevin Costner is.