My thread Dedication to the True Icons and Legends of Music
 

Hey Music banter :p:

Okay, so I have commonly witnessed on most music forums/sites that music listeners tend to define the terms "Icon" and "Legend" differently. While these terms are in the same family, they both mean two different things but I often see these terms used interchangeably when they should not be.

I know music opinions are subjective, however, it appears these terms are universally defined with objective measures or criteria.

Here are my opinions on the word Icon and Legend.



You don't become an Icon just because you are popular at a certain given time. That is not what makes a singer Iconic. People tend to automatically associate a singer being popular at a certain time with being iconic and it is not the same. This is a common misconception people make with the word Icon and legend which is why I feel these words have lost their true meanings.

There are plenty of singers and artists that were very popular during their time, won awards and sold out stadiums but they are not icons likewise there are some that did not win a lot of awards or sold out stadiums but they are still considered legendary and Iconic. (i.e Marvin Gaye)


What makes a singer or artist an icon in my opinion is something they have created that is iconic that is associated with them and has becomes apart of pop culture and forever associated with that person good or bad. That is what makes them iconic because they become a symbol of something that they did that we the public associate with. (i.e. albums, attire, performances etc)

For example,Michael Jackson of course, you guys know I love this man. His glitter socks, glitter white glove, black high waters, black fedora, black loafers, black glitter jacket with white glitter arm band (we automatically associate those things with Michael Jackson because of the iconic moment when he first showcased this to the world during the Motown 25 performance (which was/is also iconic) http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZqJvYNNWjr..._motown_25.jpg


A Legend is an artist that has made groundbreaking contributions to the music industry that has made a significant cultural impact on music and pop culture. Their music is classic, timeless as well as their videos and performances. Their material is very generational and influences generations which is what makes them legendary. They will always be a present figure in pop culture as a result (whether alive or not).

http://www.gaystarnews.com/sites/def...remes-bw_0.jpg


I don't think there are any Icons or Legends in this pop generation of pop stars. None of them have any Iconic albums, performances or moments that resonates with the public let alone legendary.

Okay now your turn! lol What do you think? What is your opinions on these definitions? Do you think they are objective or subjective? Which one is the more prestigious title?

I think Beyonce will be viewed as pretty iconic in a generations time.

I disagree.

You don't become Iconic "through time". You become Iconic by doing Iconic things, making Iconic music, having Iconic moments etc

But I am interested to know why you think this being she has not produced one Iconic song, Iconic album, or moment in pop culture that has been groundbreaking from generations to come. Her music is disposable as well as her image/performances (bootleg Tina Turner)

She is overrated and pure hype

But I am interested in hearing your opinion.

An icon for me is someone/thing that is very easily associated with, in this case, a certain type of music. Like if someone brings up pop music, there'd be this list of acts that immediately springs to mind, they'd be icons. That's how I see it at least. Justin Bieber is a pop icon and you know it.

I do think she is quite overrated but she is iconic. Her image and her music has inspired countless young girls into feminism. The way her persona has been created is an art in itself almost. Her music videos and live performances have led her to be one of the most powerful and strongest women in the world right now. That iconic image certainly shines through in her music too.
And to boot she's got some great songs. I firmly believe songs like Crazy In Love and especially Countdown are iconic and will one day be legendary.

No actually I don't.

Being popular and being Iconic are two different things. This is the misconception that I am speaking that the casual listener falls for.

Okay, what are his Iconic songs?

I can't think of any songs this child has done off the top of my head.

What are his Iconic groundbreaking songs?

An icon, to me, is someone whose image and persona embody a specific movement or culture. A legend is anyone who makes lasting music. Jimi Hendrix is an icon, Eric Clapton is a legend.

Not to mention the rumours about Obama.

Thanks for yours opinions!

Dressing half naked in music videos and parading around sexually is feminism to you?

Is that feminism to you because her brand markets it as such or is it feminism because that is what YOU think feminism is?

According to the real theory of feminism that is not what it represents.

She doesn't represent feminism and she has not "influenced girls towards feminism" that is just a fancy term she titled for her brand.

Its called marketing. I would advise you to look up what the term feminism actually means. I actually was meaning to start a thread on it here related to that in regards to music.

How so?

She comes across very vapid, boring and shows no charisma off stage.

So not sure how her is "persona" Iconic

Her stage persona is definitely not original which is why I don't get your legendary assumptions. She pretty much copies from Tina Turner and Janet Jackson. I also do not think she is a good dancer. Booty shaking is not dancing.

An example of an artist who had an Iconic persona would be Michael Jackson. He had a larger than life persona but that is because he was unique, had charisma and was interesting Beyonce is neither of those things.


Beyonce has million dollar marketing but none of her albums have sold above 5 million. Her album sells are poor and being popular at the at the moment still does not necessarily make someone an Icon.


IMO it does not. Her music is very boring as well as her personality.
She is not "interesting." Hell, Janelle Monae has a more interesting persona and of course music.


If that is your opinion I can respect it but I think her music sucks and she doesn't have any classic albums or songs.

Where is the Iconic groundbreaking music that will be remembered like the previous Icons before her?

She is just hype.

I don't think those songs are groundbreaking enough to call them legendary. Those songs simply have not impacted music to the point they are impeded in our culture.

When I think of an Iconic song first songs that come to mind is a song like "Marvin Gaye's What's Going On" or Michael Jackson's Thriller (For Iconic Album)

They still having meaning even for this generation not just during their respective era's.

No singer out now has made that same impact.

It doesn't matter what I think feminism is, totally irrelevant. The point is she's brought it into the mainstream, and that will be having an affect on many young girls (and boys) even unconsciously.
Stage shows, what makes a classic album, a groundbreaking song - that's all subjective and not what makes an icon in my book. An icon speaks to a large body of people, changes things.
Beyonce is one of the biggest stars right now, and she certainly has potential to keep the momentum going. As well as looking strong and sexually liberated, her and Jay have this kind of Liz Taylor and Richard Burton power couple thing going on.
I love Countdown, one of my favourite songs of the last few years. The video is beautifully shot. The cuts are seem less and some of the decor and dancing is really interesting. Influenced by a variety of different styles. And she's certainly not half'naked and 'booty shaking' (which is dancing BTW, by definiton).
Hell, even the song is pretty cool the way it frequently changes tempo and time signature.

It's not so much a showcase of feminism as it as a good representation of a woman who is in charge which can be empowering to women regardless of what she is in charge of or how she uses her power. Some people like her content others do not, but I don't think it really captures the bigger picture of what she represents. Feminism is about equal opportunities and she has made her way to the top in a "male dominated"(not sure how statistically correct this is anymore) society.

On topic:

A music icon is someone who is a good representation of the genre. I view this the same way as Mundo. If I were talking to someone about music and said "do you like "X" genre? For example artist or artist".

Icons are usually very popular and probably a source of inspiration for others in the same genre.

I think it matters because just because a singer is marketed as being one thing does not necessarily mean people are going to agree with how is being branded.

The reason why I asked you what your definition of feminism was and if you understand the meaning of it is because not all girls, women, people look at her as an accurate representation of what feminism is despite that being something she tries to "brand"

Also she is not the first to coin the phrase in the mainstream.

I still disagree with your argument that her bringing up feminism automatically means she will be legendary when there have been artists before her that were actual feminists and actually cared about social issues i.e. Aretha Franklin.

Coining a social term is more than just calling yourself a feminist and has more to do with how you implement the term with actions which Beyonce does not do lol She does not sing about social issues or equality. Her music is nothing more but generic disposable music.

Your making her fancy title of her "brand" more meaningful than what it actually is.

I think Iconic moments, legendary status and classic music is determined by the Public and so far she is not really viewed as any of these things by the public besides being popular. I never hear any of her of old songs play on the radio or her old music videos playing on television.

I am still bewildered with how her music is so groundbreaking and innovative.

I often hear people cite her being overrated more than anything else and I know fans of hers that think the same way as well.

You really don't think Beyonce is overly sexual explicit and provocative on stage and in her videos? Have you seen her latest videos?

You can like her but come on and I do not think what she does is dancing. She does not do intricate, rehearsed or complicated choreography.

Shaking your ass is not dancing.

I really appreciate your opinions!!!

I find it interesting when it comes to artists being iconic or legendary you listed ones you like and then started disagreeing with ones you didn't.

I'd be interested in seeing who you consider iconic or legendary that you don't personally like and saying why you think they are.

So are you insisting that Michael Jackson being an Icon and The Supremes being a legend is just MY own subjective opinion OR you disagree with that?

There are objective reasons for why they are Icons and legends, MJ is both.

I have made it clear previously that I don't think this current generation has any Icons or legends because they have not really made that much of an impact on music (and quite frankly they haven't).


Elvis is a legend and I don't like him (which I haven't stated plenty of times)

Madonna is an Icon and I think she is overrated.....but Madonna has Iconic and classic albums, songs, performances (MTV performance), videos etc, she has made a big cultural impact on pop culture.

Would you say Elvis is an icon?

Yes, actually he is.

Both a legend and Icon similar with the Beatles.

What about someone on the opposite end of the spectrum. Ozzy Osbourne?

I think we could play a fun game where we make a list of artists and Soulflower can label them an icon, legend, both, or neither.

Thanks D for your opinions.

The problem I have with people insisting she represents this is that it only really showcases one theory out of many different theories that fall under feminism.

I just feel sorry for all the impressionable young girls who look at her overly sexual performances and music videos and think dressing half naked represents feminism or means "liberation" when it doesn't.

She is confusing her young fans.

hahahaha

He is apart of a legendary group that made a significant impact on music.

Are you speaking on him as a solo artist?

I'm saying we already know you have a hard on for some these big name artists but by choosing 3 of the biggest acts of all time you're playing it very safe.

I want to see you push the boundaries of your definition and tell us who else you thinks qualifies. It's all too easy to say this person isn't on that level that band isn't either because they're not on Jackson or Madonna's level. Otherwise the thread just becomes 'my favourite artist is more iconic and legendary than yours'.

hahahahaha

I feel you which is why I asked people to express if the terms Iconic or Legendary were subjective or objective terms.

Maybe you can help in answering this question.

If you think these artists are often cited, why don't you list artists you think are legends or Icons and express why you think they are?



Also, I didn't choose the "biggest" artists.



I chose the first Icons that popped in my head or artists that I consider to be legends. The reason why those artists are often cited is because of their cultural impact on popular music and pop culture. There is simply no getting around "not" mentioning them in a thread like this. (MJ, Madonna, Prince etc are always going to be mentioned and should be mentioned whether their impact is obvious or not) They have made a significant impact on popular culture and are clear cut examples of what it means to be Iconic or an Icon.

IMO there are no current popular artists that have made the same impact as them or will in the future.

But yes, there are other artists that I do think are legends and Icons and I will gladly with pleasure list in a future post and explain why I think they are :)

I am also interested in seeing some of your opinions a well since I always enjoy reading them.

Whitney Houston
 

Whitney Houston
Iconic Moments: The Body Guard Movie
http://www.mediamondo.ch/media/catal..._bodyguard.jpg


Iconic Performance: Whitney Houston's Super Bowl performance of "I Will Away's Love You"
http://rumorfix.com/wp-content/uploa...1/starwide.jpg


Iconic song: "I Will Always Love You"--- its a cover but it is widely associated with her. Thats her song.

Janet Jackson
 

Janet Jackson
Iconic Album: Rhythm Nation
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_N3iIJVXFka...s400/Front.jpg

Iconic Look: Rhythm Nation Look
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1...mnx7o1_500.jpg

Iconic Music Videos:

Rhythm Nation
http://thejosevilson.com/wp-content/...anetrhythm.jpg

Pleasure Principle
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9gzPJ8yQpR...et+mirrors.gif


Miss You Much
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0...fe7uo8_250.gif

Alright
https://31.media.tumblr.com/9bdc2e2b...1wj4o2_250.gif


Thats The Way Love Goes
https://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m...j59do1_250.gif

Iconic performances: Janet Jackson 1987 performance at AMA's award show
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/Jjn3EGyjTZA/0.jpg

Iconic albums: Control, Rhythm Nation, Janet, The Velvet Rope

Wait, Ozzy isn't iconic in your eyes but Janet Jackson is?

He is by default because he was in an Iconic group

and yes Janet Jackson by definition is an Icon.

Prince
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_d0YPW7Wxb7...1600/prain.jpg

Iconic Moments:

Purple Rain Movie
http://www.posters-n-prints.com/zoom...in-posters.jpg

Iconic songs: Purple Rain, Kiss, When Doves Cry, The Beautiful Ones

Iconic Album:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...purplerain.jpg

Iconic Look:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ain_single.jpg

If people really think about these examples. One of these moments whether it was an album, movie, song etc still has relevance till this day because it made a cultural impact and we associate these moments with these artists. People still try to imitate these moments and things because of what they represent.


Just being popular does not make you an Icon once again, but thats just my 2 cents.

I think that VH1 nailed it a few years back when they polled a ton of folks working in the industry.

VH1′s 100 Greatest Artists Of All Time | Thought Catalog

Disagree?

http://bunkstrutts.files.wordpress.c...1/03/sheep.gif

Yes I disagree, b.s. list.

So who's your 1-2-3-4-5?

Of all time?

Not just your faves.

I meant to tell you something.

I think you and your wife make a nice looking older couple.

Um...lets see.

Some of my favorites I consider as some of the all time greats so it would be extremely hard for me not to include at least some of them in a Top 5.

There are a ton of artists that I consider some of the greatest of all time but I will just name five of them since you asked for five.

In no particular order:

Michael Jackson
Freddie Mercury/Queen
Aretha Franklin
The Carpenters
The Rolling Stones

You're right, but still, :finger:

GREAT F*CKING LIST!

I'm not going to argue.

Oh stop it! :laughing:

You have a nice family :) and thanks!

Ozzy as a front man is iconic on it's own right
Janet Jackson in my eyes isn't iconic, MJ is but she falls short.

You pointed out some of her iconic performances and those i agree are iconic but she herself isn't an icon imo, in this case i would call her a legend.

If im honest with you, i prefer Janet's music over Ozzy and Prince but as much as i like her i dont think she reaches Icon status like them.

Bing Crosby was a Icon and a legend. So is Frank Sinatra. The Beatles also. All these performers defined their eras of music end of.:clap:

You are right.

However,

Janet is an Icon in her own lane but no she is not as Iconic as Michael or Ozzy but to say she is not an Icon is absurd when she has Iconic albums and moments in pop culture.

How do you distinguish between Icon and Legend?

Defining an era does not making someone an Icon or legend.

I wish you posted more!!!

I think that being an icon is where you get to the point of being a household name and retaining that even after your prime. To be a legend, well I don't really use that word but I think being a front runner within your genre could qualify for that.