I agree, let's see if you do...
 

I've been a fan of Filter and Richard Patrick since my middle school days. I've always agreed with a lot of his views on music, politics within the music, the state of music, things like that. He says that if you look at the top 40 right now, or for whatever number of years, it's disgusting, because it's a lot of fake artists that can't write their own music, flaunt their wealth without giving a second thought to how it looks to someone that struggles to make a living, just real stupid sh*t that so many people eat up and try to defend as being this great music, and I couldn't agree more. Music, the art of music, I also agree is in an abysmal state. Richard states that the art of music right now is ****, or dead, and that's because largely, it is dead.

Just watch the interview, he eventually goes on to talk about all of that stuff. He makes valid points in my opinion.

Bull****.

Music is the best it has ever been. This dude is as much of a mainstream yuppie as the people's he's talking **** about. He's literally on this huge label talking about mainstream label *******s.


People who say this is the worst time for music are ignorant as ****, or they are old and bitter because their studio / label slave version of rock isn't viable anymore There's literally a DIY revolution happening where people don't need these labels anymore if they push themselves hard enough. Artists like Ani DiFranco, Pretty Lights, The Knife, I could go on and on. That dude is so full of ****.

Not to mention the hardcore pretentious claim that people stole that guitar sound from them.

1.) They didn't even invent that sound, so he's literally taking credit for it and calling other people derivative when they are equally derivative. Didn't come up with it. Don't take credit for it. Don't bitch when people replicate it.

2.) If you are so concerned with being "copied", maybe you should try being more creative and being less easily copied.

Let's take two influential artists -- Bjork, and The Knife.

Bjork is easily one of the most influential artists in contemporary music. From single-handedly inventing Dance Pop to putting glitch sounds on the map, to molding orchestral, organic sounds and samples with electronic aesthetics. Bjork's legacy is impossible to deny. Her influence is incredible, both in the mainstream and the alternative / experimental scene. I can't think of a single artist that sounds like Bjork, because noone CAN sound like Bjork.

Now let's look at The Knife. Totally revitalized synthpop and put dark, moody electronic pop with dance elements back on the map in 2004-2006. Pretty much revolutionary use of pitch shifting on the vocals.

What are we hearing so much of now adays? dark, moody electronic pop with dance elements and pitch shifted / detuned vocals. None of them managed to replicate what The Knife did, but the influence was annoyingly evident, so what did they do? Instead of becoming bitter parodies of themselves and bitching about the "state of the music industry", they adapted, and turned the entire genre on it's head, once again, with Shaking the Habitual, incorporating drone and noise and linear, harsh, tribal dance songs, soundscapes. They went from dark and electronic -- ethereal and subdued to bright as **** and booming, intense, vivid experimental dance music.

This dude is bitter, old, and out of touch. He was never unique to begin with. He's claiming ownership of a style of music, which is immature, especially since it's a style of music he didn't even invent. I'm starting to see a lot of post grunge, washed out 40 somethings who are talking about 'the state of the industry', but what they fail to realize is that there is an entirely new industry happening right under their nose. They are just too washed up and tired to get on board.

Not a bad post man. But I think you might be misunderstanding some of the things he says about the state of music. Do you really think that all of that Pop music that's so popular right now is really that great and deserves a lot of the praise it gets? It's not just Pop, but Rock too. Ton of Rock bands around now that are still largely new that are just so void of anything innovative or that has grit or depth to it. It's irritating.

You comment on his claim that bands stole the guitar sound Filter had in their hay day, as bullsh*t. Filter has been around since the early 90's. One of the groups biggest influence is Ministry. That tone you hear in Filter's music is largely borrowed from Ministry, just like with Nine Inch Nails. They've got their own spin on it, and my opinion is that Filter did it in a way that didn't come off to me as a completely ripped off tone, but more they built on the idea of it to make it something they could mold and fit to the kind of music Filter plays. Richard isn't just saying bands stole Filter's guitar sound for no reason. Because there are actually bands out their that have attempted to mimic Filter's sound which is more or less its own thing, still even today. You can't lump Filter in as unoriginal just because other bands sound like them, because it's a fact that the bands that are unoriginal, or the ones copying the sound Filter has. Filter didn't pioneer it, but they sure as hell were one of the bands that were around at the start of it before every other band that wanted a sound like that, ripped it off.

I agree on the view that the music we have today is much less inspired, it's less bold, it's largely marketed with a 'safe' sound when it's mainstream or commercial. Richard has a point when he mentions how a lot of bands like Filter, or bands in general that are a Rock band or any sort of variant of it, come around with some song that's got a lot of grit to it, that's holds no punches, that's bold and in your face...it sort of gets ignored because these days people don't want to hear that kind of music, they want safe, nice sounding music, music like what's hot on the top 40 or played the hell out of on the radio. Let's see a radio station play the song Jurassitol by Filter, you won't because it's not painting a pretty picture and it's also not the 90's anymore when bands like Filter and Nine Inch Nails were popular. It's sad man. It's like nobody in a lot of the genre's there are want to write about anything worth talking about; has to be about sex, has to be about wealth, has to be about fame, has to be about drugs if you want it to get airplay. That sh*t was big in the 80's, but compared to now in my opinion, even those cheesy hair bands were writing better music than this bubblegum pop people eat up like gold.

I strongly believe more effort should start being important to have in today's music. Because I don't hear much effort in a lot of it because these days, little effort is needed. If you sound like One Direction or Kanye West, Katy Perry, you're good, you'll sell out stadiums and have number one hits lined up for years. I feel that those artists don't appreciate the art of music, or music in general. They're in it, they're doing it, they'll talk about how much they love music. But the music they produce tells me something different.

Also. Richard is not bitter because his band isn't as relevant anymore. He's bitter because music that is built from the ground up isn't really appreciated anymore. People don't seem to care. He wants to see that back in the music scene, recognized. I think he made that pretty clear haha. He's also not claiming ownership of a genre either. I think you might be completely missing what he's actually saying. And if I were Richard or one of those supposed washed up 40 somethings from thirty years ago or so, I wouldn't want to conform to this new industry you speak of either, because what I've heard from it so far is exactly the bland, uninspired music Richard is talking about in the interview.

And really man. He makes valid points.

As if that's any different from the 90s. There's always ****ty mainstream stuff and good alternative stuff.

Do you remember limp bizkit? Smash Mouth? Remember Aqua and Creed and All Saints and Stone Temple Pilots and Sugar Ray? Remember Hanson? Baha Men? Billy Ray Cyrus?

Every generation has bull**** and then it has good music. This generation has the most good music of any because of the internet and how easy it is to get your stuff out there. This dude is talking about EDM like it's not the most over saturated, hyper generic thing in contemporary music. EDM is literally the same exact thing as pop. The only people who think it isn't are people who just discovered it, so he's clearly out of touch with contemporary alternative music.

Rock bands are void of innovation? Yeah, your over saturated post grunge dude rock scene is void of innovation. It has been ever since Nirvana. What about math rock, and post rock, and experimental rock bands like Swans? What about the new wave of experimental folk rock?

Yeah, music is dead and void of innovation, if all you do is turn on the radio and watch MTV. This guy has such an MTV perspective. MTV is dead. The radio is dead. The internet took its place.

That's why it's not theirs. Also, if you're good, noone can mimic you. That's why iconic bands are iconic, or iconic artists in general. I don't see a million Vladimir Nabokov clones running around because noone can write like Vladimir Nabokov.

And stop talking about the top 40. Who cares about the top 40. Who gives a **** about the top 40 honestly. There's this huge amount of experimental, amazing music coming out of electronic scenes. Literally the age of the internet caused every genre and scene of music to mesh together and new sounds are popping up left and right and the level of innovation and accessibility is at an all time high and people aren't bound to the studios anymore and people are slaves to the label as much and we're sitting here referencing Katy Perry and Iggy Azaelia and Nicki Minaj. There was bubblegum pop in the 90s. The term bubblegum pop literally originated in the 60s. It's been happening for a really, really long time. It's not anything new. Mainstream pop has been doing what mainstream pop does forever.

If you really think that the new wave of experimental electronic music in the past 10 years is bland, I want to know what artists you are talking about specifically. From my standpoint, I don't think you'd be able to name a single one because you seem so wrapped up in Katy Perry, who is literally the most irrelevant person in music ever.

I looked at your last FM and literally we don't have a single artist in common except Placebo. You keep talking about the scene I'm talking about as if it's the scene he's talking about, but honestly, I don't think you, or him, even know that the scene I'm talking about exists.

You just aren't getting the point he is making man, like at all.

You're reading in to this as if this guy and his band are trying to say they're set apart from all the other generic sh*t that is out there, when he's saying the opposite. Did you even watch it? He's saying it's hard to sound different because everyone else already sounds like Filter or any other Rock band out there. But my opinion? Filter isn't nearly as generic, in fact I say they're much more original than a large amount of all these other bands selling out venues because people have bland taste.

Your point on electronic is moot to me in this conversation because I don't listen to electronic music. There's a lot you can do with it from what I have heard and been told about. But what I've been shown (don't ask who, because I don't remember, I just remember how the music sounded and it sounded so basic and simple to me...) did not impress me. I want the sound of live instruments in my music. I can't get the same feeling or sound out of something that's processed through a computer and whatever music program being used to make those sounds. You know Celldweller? Klayton, the guy behind it, is hugely all about the electronic movement. I think he's a brilliant musician, but I have never favored the electronic music he's put out, I prefer the more Rock or Industrial material he's released.

You're also talking to me like me referencing Katy Perry is the only example of bland music I know. It's not. But why would I sit here and attempt convincing someone that's so tightly wrapped up in their own opinion and won't acknowledge the valid points about the state of music as a WHOLE and not just a part of it? Because you're focus on one small part of it with electronic music, like seriously dude.

You already had your mind made up about that interview I posted before you spent that thirty seconds skipping through it and missing anything you might have found yourself agreeing with.

It's hard talking about things like this with a person with a view like yours, because you just won't have things any other way than your own. An MTV perspective? Dude, that's just hilarious because Richard is entirely against MTV, has been for a while. The last video I believe they had played on there was way back in 2000, when MTV didn't play so much sh*t.

You're narrow minded, and your have a narrow minded perspective because of it.

You're not bringing anything substantial to this topic, so why should I bother discussing it anymore with you? Give me one reason why I should be convinced you know what you're talking about. Because you don't understand it as well as you think you do, not from how I see things.

Not only do I disagree with Richard Patrick, but I've always considered Filter to be an example of tepid pop music so hearing these comments from him is kind of humorous.

When I read an opinion like this, I always wonder where the Pop music even applies to Filter and their music, other than maybe some of their softer material that was geared toward radio play and MTV when they were popular.

You know your sh*t Jansz, and of course you wouldn't like something like Filter. At least you're not blowing up the thread, glorifying electronic music.

...also, isn't it obvious that Richard is talking mainly about the popular, mainstream music and not so much the underground sh*t? Probably because he wants what he hears outside of popular music culture to get the exposure it needs to push everything ****ty that dominates the charts, out and gone. Not once does he glorify Filter as being this super great band. He just feels that he's keeping the music he makes more true to the art in whatever way he can. I can say from listening to this band since Short Bus that yes, Filter had a lot going for them, and I think even the ideas Richard has in the band today are good. That's just me, though, whatever.

My familiarity with Filter is limited to Short Bus and their singles, and nothing I've heard was better than lukewarm or ever gave me the impression that he might progress on to making anything interesting. Maybe I'm wrong, and later on he went on to make material that was more unique and interesting. My guess is he didn't, but I'd be willing give it a listen if he did.

On a different note, what's wrong with electronic music?

I rest my case. You just don't know.

No. I'm talking about you referencing Katy Perry because when I talk about the state of music with my friends, we don't reference Katy Perry or the top 40 because it's static. It's always going to be there. It's always been there. It has nothing to do with anything. Referencing Katy Perry and top 40 reminds me of those youtube comments that are like

YOU SAY LADY GAGA? I SAY NICKELBACK

YOU SAY KATY PERRY? I SAY LINKIN PARK

90% OF TEENS LISTEN TO ****TY MUSIC. IF YOU'RE ONE OF THE 10% THAT DOESN'T, POST THIS TO 10 PEOPLE.

Like it's just immature to reference Katy Perry and top 40 music in that context.

Actually I watched 20 minutes of it.

Yeah this is a misunderstanding. When I talk about the MTV mentality, I'm not saying he likes MTV. I'm saying that he only pays attention to what is right in front of his face. He only listens to what is handed to him and what is within his immediate culture. That's why he references EDM the way he does. EDM is tired and static and everything sounds the same. Even all of the EDM artists are saying that. If you go to the EDM production subreddit, there is constantly threads about how static the genre is. This dude references EDM like it's this new wave of hardcore innovation when it's literally the most static genre out there. Mainstream pop is more dynamic than EDM. That's why I'm saying he has the MTV mindset. He's used to music being handed to him. That explains his narrow minded viewpoint on EDM, and his lack of music knowledge in general. People who are actually on the cutting edge, listening to the new experimental sounds, sifting through the trends in alternative music -- they aren't referencing EDM. Only an ignorant person would reference EDM as innovative. It's just such an outdated point of view.

Ad hominem.

There's a disconnect between it, and me. I can't find anything I like about it. How innovative or great grtwhtgrvty is something I don't hear, or agree on. I feel like he's just trying to make something dull, shine. It's possible I could find something pretty neat if I tried. But honestly, that desire to do so just isn't there.

Go check out the Title Of Record by Filter, I felt it was better than Short Bus. You might like it better. I feel Filter did produce songs that were interesting and unique in some ways, but you're talking to a guy that really likes the band, and Mr. Know It All grtwhtgrvty is calling me bland for liking them and that I'm an idiot that doesn't know what he's talking about. Whatever, kind of done or don't even care to waste time on people like him with nothing good to say.

Richard Patrick. Been in the music business since 86', multi-instrumentalist, producer, successful to boot, but somehow doesn't know sh*t about the industry or what's going on in it, you're judging this about a guy you know nothing about, and have only watched one single interview from him where he expressed some opinions about the COMMERCIAL/MAINSTREAM music scene.

I talked with Richard the last time I saw Filter live. I asked him what he thought of the obscure bands, indie music, electronic music that you glorify grtwhtgrvty, and he had some pretty profound and knowledgeable things to say about it. Don't be a f*cking prick dude, because you don't know the guy or what he thinks about the things you claim he's oblivious to.

But you can keep acting like you do. F*ck if I'm going to take your opinion seriously when its been pulled out of your ass.

You're also doing the same thing with me. Judging me on just a few things I've said here, how credible my knowledge is, like you f*cking know me. You're not going to last here man. You're going to keep touting around your know it all attitude, and people are going to get tired of it and run you off.

You're going to reply to this with assumptions and insult my intelligence, what I know. But you're going to be talking to a wall because I'm done dignifying what you say with a response.

When did I say you were dull or bland?

Nice strawman brochacho. I like how you didn't reference a single point that I made. you just had a conniption fit borrderline mental breakdown, completely grasping at straws, looking for a reason to be offended instead of actually dismantling my non offensive, yet to be invalidated opinions. It makes you look childish when you get offended over insults that don't exist and freak out when someone doesn't like your generic duderock power chord band.

What did he say? Which artists did you ask him about? I'm still completely convinced that you have no idea about any of the electronic music I listen to, to be honest. Not that simplicity vs complexity actually matters, but a vast majority of the electronic music that I listen to, is objectively, from a theory standpoint, a melodic standpoint, a genre variation standpoint, a rhythm standpoint, pretty much every conceivable way, even lyrically, more complex than the bands that you listen to, which seem to be Limp Bizkit and 30 seconds to mars. You're literally going to come in here saying electronic music is bland and simple when you listen to Limp Bizkit? I'm sorry if I come across as a know it all, or if you are insulted by what I'm saying. I actually made a point not to come across insulting to you, but you're making it so difficult.

You literally can't downgrade anyone's taste in music as being simple or basic. You literally listen to Limp Bizkit.

Your entire argument is ****. You're a hopeless fanboy that can't look at this objectively. I'm pointing out the flaw in your idol and you're flipping out. That's the reality of it. Until this post, I haven't insulted you a single time. I pointed out the flaws in your idol and you went Belieber mode on me and deluded yourself into feeling offended. What the **** did you expect? did you really expect noone to disagree with you? Did you actually want a discussion or did you just want people to suck Filter's cock and agree that they are the best band ever and everyone copied them?

"I DON'T REMEMBER ANY OF THESE ARTISTS, BUT I TOTALLY TALKED TO HIM ABOUT THEM, AND HIS KNOWLEDGE WAS SO PROFOUND MAN"

#pleaselikemymusic

So you really want to do this, have a civil and neutral conversation about this? I feel like that can only happen if you dial back remarks like immature (me mentioning Katy Perry) or making claims against things I may or may not know about (the electronic music you listen to, say I do not, even though I told you honestly that I don't listen to completely electronic music...probably twice...) Buddy, of course I don't listen to any of the electronic music you do, I don't seek that music out. What are you trying to prove by continuing to bring that up when I've already said I don't listen to it?

I don't listen to Limb Bizkit, not in the way you think that I do, and I am not a fan. If you want to say I can't talk about how dull I think electronic music is just because I listen to 30 Seconds To Mars, remarks like that will just lead to me writing you off and not taking you seriously. I'm trying hard here to not tell you to f*ck off, because you're rubbing more than just me the wrong way.

And you mention me being childish. You claiming I listen to Limp Bizkit and that if I did, I could not put someone else's credibility or knowledge in question, that's a bit childish itself, so don't go there. What else do I supposedly also listen to, Hoobastank? I'm intrigued. You tell me what I listen to, when you just don't know. Limp Bizkit was middle school for me man, long since grown out of them, and over them. No thanks.

And what would me telling you what Richard said actually do? Really don't think your opinion of him would change, even though the opinion you have is based on assumptions.

Who is that directed at? If it's me Nine. I'm disappointed, I thought we were homies.

Yeah...we're done dude. I don't get offended by people disagreeing with me. I get offended when people pull what you're pulling. I don't have an issue with you pointing out things about Richard. I have an issue with you. Just you.

****, triple post.

more to the guy from the video. didn't watch the whole thing but ya I certainly disagree with him. whining about mainstream music is just so passe at this point

Please like my music, that sounds exactly like everyone else's music.

Stop calling me passe, ass. lol, I j/k. Would you agree that if someone is tired of mainstream, that they should look in less obscure places for their music? I think they should.

Literally what

Give us all a good laugh.

lol, well you can laugh without me writing all that up, given that you're also not a fan. It defeats the purpose when all the person asking wants to do, is trash the guy regardless of if he makes any sense.

I like you Urban, but I'm not going to. It sort of takes away the mood to talk about it when people just trash me for liking this band, for liking Richard, and there's that constant judging of my own personal taste in music over one damn band. It doesn't bother me if someone says they don't like Filter. What bothers me is when it's done in a really demeaning manner, and it's only meant to get a rise out of whoever likes the music. Sort of impossible to have any kind of conversation when things are like that.

I don't have an opinion of that band one way or another.

All I saw was some guy whining for half an hour that things are not what they were like 20 years ago when he had his one and only hit.
Pop music is safe?
No shit Sherlock it's been that way for decades, it's not a new thing just because nobody cares about your band.

Fair enough.

He did a lot of stating the obvious, but points were made, and I didn't agree with absolutely everything, just a majority of it even though I've heard it all before.

They've had a few hits actually, haha but yeah, was a pretty long while ago now.

When I say hit I was being generous, what I actually mean is track on a movie soundtrack that I usually skipped.
That's probably the closest they got to having any fame outside the U.S.

What does his popularity have to do with the validity of his opinions?

Everything if you go back and read what I said.

Would it be irony if I said they played outside of the U.S. more now than they did when they were popular in the U.S.?

nobody buying ur jacket

Well I'll guess I'll have to spell it out to you.

He was complaining that pop music is safe and dull.
Well it was safe and dull 20 years ago, the only difference was back then bad post grunge bands and generic alt-rock were what was popular. Which just so happened to be the kind of music he plays.

Now it's moved on to other things being popular and just as generic and dull and all of a sudden he says 'Hey, pop music is safe and boring'.

It always was, it's just he didn't care when it was him selling records.

That seems like an excessive amount of guessing but okay, I was just curious. :soccer:

Which parts to you seemed like guessing?

Electronic music covers a pretty huge swath of what's out there. Nothing at all from any of the past six or seven decades of electronic music appeals to you in any way? Doesn't Filter have a electronic element to their sound?

I have it playing right now and it sounds similar to their other stuff to me, but I'll try to give it a full listen at some point.

If all the bands in the top 40 sounded like Led Zeppelin or Nirvana, maybe pop music wouldn't entirely be derivative and safe.

what do you mean less obscure places? if you don't like mainstream music ok cool. don't listen to it and don't cry about it. this guy just comes across as another edgy 2cool4skool teen. "waah people need to like my music".

Yes indeed, Filter does have electronic elements to their sound, Richard likes that type of thing. But it's not straight up electronic music, it's got the live instruments with it so it doesn't sound so plain to me. And I'll be frank with you Jansz. I haven't really listened to a whole lot of electronic music my entire life. I've heard songs here and there, but it probably wasn't the 'good' stuff. I told whats his name that probably six times. If you want to point me in the right direction to something electronic that you think will appeal to me, I'll give it an honest listen.

Title Of Record had a little more of an experimental sound to me, I thought it was a more cohesive record, a bit stronger. The Amalgamut got weird, but I liked it, truthfully there isn't a Filter record I don't like. I'm not going to push it on you though. If you like any of what you hear and think there's more to Filter than what some claim, cool. If your opinion stays the same as it was before you listened to anything else by them, also cool.

I actually didn't mean less obscure. I meant that if people want to get away from mainstream, look for independent artists/bands, or sites that promote non-commercial/mainstream music. I dig through YouTube and other sites every day for undiscovered gems.

Again people just talking **** because they're too ignorantly stuck in the past, and just essentially having a temper tantrum. Lmao and hold up, how can anyone say that musicians flaunt their wealth and dont care. Kendricks new album is so engrossed in it's political message there's hardly any braggadocio in there about wealth etc. What are you talking abouuuut

A question about electronic music. I've seen a lot of people complain that electronics used in music make it too easy for anyone to be a musician or something along those lines, because there isn't necessarily any talent behind it. Aside from not agreeing on the talent factor, wouldn't you say that making it easier to make good music is a bad thing? Sure there's a lot of **** out there but that's true for acoustic instruments playing those cheesy love songs you fawn over as well. That's not to mention that electronic music doesn't entirely rule out acoustic instruments, since electronics don't always start off with a synthetic sound but sometimes use recordings of regular instruments and likewise. With electronics, you could easily produce either a Skrillex song or recreate "Within You Without You" to a tee since there is so much that you can do with the technology these days.

This tired argument that the OP puts forward was seen in the rise of rock 'n' roll and the guitar amp gaining popularity. The electric element was seen as synthetic and lacking in the organic sound that you would get from a nice piece of wood. Also with electric guitar strings not having to be so heavy of a gauge do to their amplification, this made it a lot easier for people to play faster on guitar and largely made the instrument easier to play if you were going to choose an electric instrument.

The way I see it, the rise in electronics (which is by no means a new thing, it goes all the way back to the early 1900s ffs) is sort of like the electric guitar. It's revamping an old idea using more modern technology while having the potential to contribute to the evolution of music. However, people have only seen this be used for "evil" ie pop music, which a lot of anti-electronics people seem to hate (except for the music of the glory days before they grew up and matured into a sense of cynicism. Now that was REAL music man). Electronics have been around for a long time, longer than rock music even, and the diversity within the field is immense. You've probably listened to quite a bit of electronic music without even realizing it since the technology has evolved so much.

CN if you're interested in some recs, hit me with a PM.

Yes is true.

That's awful. Talent is the only thing that matters in music.