Big Four Bands Thread Round 19: Gothic Rock

[Terrapin_Station]

Also, re lyrics, although there are some lyricists I like, outside of a couple genres, 99% of the time I pay almost no attention to lyrics. Heck that's even the case with some lyricists I like. For example, I don't usually pay much attention to lyrics when I listen to Bob Dylan. I do like his lyrics when I pay attention to them, but usually I don't pay attention when I'm listening to him.

The genres that are an exception for me tend to be country, comedy-oriented stuff, and the (too) few artists there are in the vein of, say, Laurie Anderson or Ken Nordine.

I also don't think any lyrics are bad--to me, for most music, lyrics are ultimately just sounds to make with your mouth in a musical context, but I also don't think that most lyrics are very interesting. For one, I like to see people do creative formal/structural/artistic things with lyrics, but not many concentrate on that. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't care for that, either. For example, Jon Anderson of Yes does this, but a lot of people feel that he's a bad lyricist. I disagree.

[Blank.]

Originally Posted by Dylstew

I think I know what you mean. Movies in the same genres can have different themes and tones and such, that's where most if it's meaning lies. With music, most of the meaning lies in the lyrics. This it's a different situation with music and hard to compare.

However, I do think the comparison still makes some sense in a different way. The ''meaning'' in music itself, would be the genral feelings it's trying to get across by itself (through stuff like timbre, timing, tempo, melody style, harmony, etc). If you go to Rateyourmusic, the genre would be the genre, but the ''meaning'' I talked about that can be so different in the same genre, would be closer to the ''Descriptors'', which describe what feeling the music gives across and the appeal instead of what way used to accomplish those things.

Minor Threat's genre on there is Hardcore Punk. It's descriptors by people however are:

'''Angry, energetic, aggressive, rebellious, political, raw, conscious''

There''s plenty of genres that can achieve these things in their own ways.


I like thinking and discussing about a subject like this, makes me figure stuff out on my own as opposed to taking someone elses word for it. And ofcourse I get to see which thoughts make sense and which don't from sharing said thoughts.

So before I expand on this, I have to say that what I'm going to talk about will cause elephenor to pop up and say, "Punk is an attitude! Not a sound!" And when that happens, can we all agree to ignore him and continue this discussion or whatever we are talking about at the time?

[Plankton]

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

Since there are some people who don't know the difference between Chicago Blues and Delta Blues, or between Piedmont Blues and Delta Blues...

The way I tell them all apart is the more twangier the guitar sounds, the more southern part of the country they're from. Chicago blues players use Strats, and the occasional ES335 but play mostly using the neck pickup, giving the guitar sound a more richer, thicker tone. On the other end of the spectrum, let's say Texas Blues, you're in Telecaster territory and that's generally a thinner tone, where they kill it with the bridge pick up. There is some middle territory that has overlap though regarding the guitars used when you get into people like Muddy Waters and older artists like Robert Johnson who didn't have all the fancy bells and whistles that were available after his time. It's just kind of my own little rule of thumb that helps most of the time, which is better than none of the time.

[Blank.]

Originally Posted by Dylstew

I think I know what you mean. Movies in the same genres can have different themes and tones and such, that's where most if it's meaning lies. With music, most of the meaning lies in the lyrics. This it's a different situation with music and hard to compare.

However, I do think the comparison still makes some sense in a different way. The ''meaning'' in music itself, would be the genral feelings it's trying to get across by itself (through stuff like timbre, timing, tempo, melody style, harmony, etc). If you go to Rateyourmusic, the genre would be the genre, but the ''meaning'' I talked about that can be so different in the same genre, would be closer to the ''Descriptors'', which describe what feeling the music gives across and the appeal instead of what way used to accomplish those things.

Minor Threat's genre on there is Hardcore Punk. It's descriptors by people however are:

'''Angry, energetic, aggressive, rebellious, political, raw, conscious''

There''s plenty of genres that can achieve these things in their own ways.


I like thinking and discussing about a subject like this, makes me figure stuff out on my own as opposed to taking someone elses word for it. And ofcourse I get to see which thoughts make sense and which don't from sharing said thoughts.

I agree. But that's why certain genres are also defined by their attitude as well as their sound. Look at punk rock. It has its sound, but anot her part is the attitude. Don't get me wrong. I hate the over classification of genres. If I have to hear that All That Remains isn't "real" metal one more time I may knock someone out.

[The Batlord]

Just because All That Remains suck ass doesn't mean they're not metal.

[Mondo Bungle]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Just because All That Remains suck ass doesn't mean they're not metal.

The metal archives ***gots can get boned

[Dylstew]

Originally Posted by 1blankmind

So before I expand on this, I have to say that what I'm going to talk about will cause elephenor to pop up and say, "Punk is an attitude! Not a sound!" And when that happens, can we all agree to ignore him and continue this discussion or whatever we are talking about at the time?

Punk is a social construct.

Originally Posted by 1blankmind

I agree. But that's why certain genres are also defined by their attitude as well as their sound. Look at punk rock. It has its sound, but anot her part is the attitude. Don't get me wrong. I hate the over classification of genres. If I have to hear that All That Remains isn't "real" metal one more time I may knock someone out.

Yeah, I agree, things like attitude are also parts of the genre itself as well, it's one of many elements. It's not an easy topic and I'm far from an expert.

I'm the type of person who loves to look at all kinds of different sub genres, yet it pisses me off as well when someone calls something ''not real punk'' or ''not real metal'', when it has just as many elements of said genre as any other. Just because it's a timbre, production,singing style or image you dislike in the genre doesn't mean it doesn't fit the genre. I defended Green Day despite not caring for them much just because I hate this narrow attitude on what's punk or metal.

Originally Posted by Mondo Bungle

The metal archives ***gots can get boned

Metal Archives seem to be eletist pricks who don't put anything they don't like or anything that they find to have too much pop or too much punk on the site. Correct me if I'm wrong but from what they've rejected I've gotten that impression.

[The Batlord]

*elitist

[Key]

Originally Posted by Dylstew

Punk is a social construct.

Your mom is a social construct.

[Blank.]

Originally Posted by Mondo Bungle

The metal archives ***gots can get boned

Metal archives? I don't know this one.