The Official Religious/Political Debate Thread (country, rock, Europe, American)

David Frost · 10-31-2004, 11:06 AM

i never said i wasnt close minded as far as my beliefs, what i meant by that is that im not a typical liberal. i share some belifes that may suprise some people as a kerry (not bush) supporter. however, after listening to you babble, i have to say that i could pretty much nail your belief on every single subject. but, as i said before... i am done. if you want to further this little discussion, i would love to... on aim, or with a private discussion, but as far as this thread is concerned, it has went wayy off topic and im finished.

franscar · 10-31-2004, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamAlejo

Seeing as though I have many friends in the military, I take offense to that, but realize it is just your point of view. But can you at least give some evidence of that information?

British government statistics, which were first reported after the first British fatalities in Iraq caused by an American helicopter firing upon a British regiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamAlejo

I'm saying that the Iraqi people are keeping information from the American troops. I'm saying that many Iraqi people are housing the people doing the attacks. To not believe that is naive.

Why do the Iraqi people have to tell this invading army ANYTHING? I'm sure if the coalition hadn't made such a complete and total mess of the entire thing that the majority of Iraqi people wouldn't be so openly hostile to the new dictatorship they are seeing forced upon them in place of the old one. The Iraqi people are about as liberated today as they were before the US decided to occupy the country, and the Iraqi people are not so stupid as to be blind to the real reasons why the Americans went in in the first place.

IamAlejo · 10-31-2004, 12:34 PM

I'd love to see the American military go against the "far more intelligent" English military. Any idea on who would win?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franscar

Why do the Iraqi people have to tell this invading army ANYTHING? I'm sure if the coalition hadn't made such a complete and total mess of the entire thing that the majority of Iraqi people wouldn't be so openly hostile to the new dictatorship they are seeing forced upon them in place of the old one. The Iraqi people are about as liberated today as they were before the US decided to occupy the country, and the Iraqi people are not so stupid as to be blind to the real reasons why the Americans went in in the first place.

Sof if we are an invading army...why is it our right to care for the "innocent civilians"? We are at war with them right? And the real reasons? Let me guess you are going to go onto the oil speel. Why wouldn't we go into Saudi Arabia then? They have much more oil than Iraq. If you've noticed gas prices have gone up in the US, not down. The whole oil arguement is redundant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Frost

i never said i wasnt close minded as far as my beliefs, what i meant by that is that im not a typical liberal. i share some belifes that may suprise some people as a kerry (not bush) supporter. however, after listening to you babble, i have to say that i could pretty much nail your belief on every single subject. but, as i said before... i am done. if you want to further this little discussion, i would love to... on aim, or with a private discussion, but as far as this thread is concerned, it has went wayy off topic and im finished.

To sit there and say you could nail me on every single subject is a little ****y eh? I'd love to see you try. I'd love to see you explain Kerry's Senate record. I agree, Bush is not a "great" President, but to put someone into office that is even less qualified is slightly ridiculous.

franscar · 10-31-2004, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamAlejo

I'd love to see the American military go against the "far more intelligent" English military. Any idea on who would win?

Dear lord, you really want me to answer that? Take a look at the fatality rates in Iraq for a big clue. Or the fact that British controlled areas such as Basra have very low levels of insurgent activity due to the way in which the British forces have conducted themselves. Then ask yourself why, if the Americans are so great, the Blackwatch regiment has been sent into the Triangle of Death near Baghdad. Sorry to dent your nationalistic pride in your army buddies, but they aren't very good at fighting wars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamAlejo

Sof if we are an invading army...why is it our right to care for the "innocent civilians"? We are at war with them right? And the real reasons? Let me guess you are going to go onto the oil speel. Why wouldn't we go into Saudi Arabia then? They have much more oil than Iraq. If you've noticed gas prices have gone up in the US, not down. The whole oil arguement is redundant.

Looks like you need a little refresher. The war was declared against the ruling elite in Iraq, not the general populous. Hence the pointlessness of blowing them up. It isn't solving anything. Not even George W. would be stupid enough to invade Saudi Arabia, the Saudis have your government by the balls, hence why the US has invaded Iraq in order to secure its own oil supply. Think long-term, and the whole jigsaw slots neatly into place, I won't spell it all out for you, I think you're smart enough to work it all out for yourself.

IamAlejo · 10-31-2004, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franscar

Looks like you need a little refresher. The war was declared against the ruling elite in Iraq, not the general populous. Hence the pointlessness of blowing them up. It isn't solving anything. Not even George W. would be stupid enough to invade Saudi Arabia, the Saudis have your government by the balls, hence why the US has invaded Iraq in order to secure its own oil supply. Think long-term, and the whole jigsaw slots neatly into place, I won't spell it all out for you, I think you're smart enough to work it all out for yourself.

We declared war on terror, do you need a refresher? Saudi Arabia has our country by the balls? Ummm, not really, but I do see where you are coming from. But the US has been working on becoming less and less dependant on oil, so if you think we went to war with Iraq for the sole, or even main reason of oil, you are wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franscar

Dear lord, you really want me to answer that? Take a look at the fatality rates in Iraq for a big clue. Or the fact that British controlled areas such as Basra have very low levels of insurgent activity due to the way in which the British forces have conducted themselves. Then ask yourself why, if the Americans are so great, the Blackwatch regiment has been sent into the Triangle of Death near Baghdad. Sorry to dent your nationalistic pride in your army buddies, but they aren't very good at fighting wars.

Dear lord, the only reason we do things in this manner is to come the liberal pussies around the world happy. If we tried to be as sufficient as possible we would have bombed the holy hell out of everything. Even if you military is more intelligent and better trained, the technology makes the US military far more supreme than any other military world-wide.

jibber · 10-31-2004, 04:36 PM

*starts singing* ooohhh caannnaaddaa, our home and native land......

franscar · 10-31-2004, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamAlejo

Dear lord, the only reason we do things in this manner is to come the liberal pussies around the world happy. If we tried to be as sufficient as possible we would have bombed the holy hell out of everything. Even if you military is more intelligent and better trained, the technology makes the US military far more supreme than any other military world-wide.

"Liberal pussies". My word. That must be the most stereotypical Yankee doodle bs I've read in a long time. Remember Vietnam? The US military bombed the holy hell out of everything there, and didn't achieve anything. Field Marshal Montgomery said in 1944 that a ground incursion into Asian territory was doomed to failure, and 50 years on the American army continue to prove him right.

IamAlejo · 11-01-2004, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franscar

"Liberal -------". My word. That must be the most stereotypical Yankee doodle bs I've read in a long time. Remember Vietnam? The US military bombed the holy hell out of everything there, and didn't achieve anything. Field Marshal Montgomery said in 1944 that a ground incursion into Asian territory was doomed to failure, and 50 years on the American army continue to prove him right.

Actually in Vietnam we had made it a point (and maybe even a military law) not to bomb Religious temples/buidlings etc. The Vietnameese would hide around/in these buildings knowing we would not use air attacks. There is much more to that story than you talk about. If we bombed the "holy hell out of everything" that would have been easily accomplished. We do have the fire power (as do some other countries) to make that a reality. I truly hope it never happens though.

I agree with Montgomery though, looking back I don't see how we could have been successful going on the ground into Asian territory.

On a side note, Happy Halloween everyone. Hope everybody had a good one.

Thrice · 11-17-2004, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowsniper

Do your really one of the stupiest people I have seen. You really disappoint me, especially since your a foreigner. ESPECIALLY because you are an AUZZIE. Good thing ur not a German, because Germany and France are the only intelligent countries it seems in Europe, well Spain joined the group too. You dont listen to the media or press. Wow, where do u get your information then? Conspiracy websites? Everything is media, media means anything that informs through audio, visual or other means of communications. I guess u didnt know that since English isnt ur first language, well its not mine either, but I guess that just means your not informed, oh well. Seriously dude, go read a book or something, this is hurting my brain. Many people in the US dont like Bush any more and you, a foreigner, like him. JESUS ****ING CHRIST, I am out of here. This is lame we already explained all this in previous posts that you were to lazy to read. I even said I wasnt American. Go read before u post. Anyways, I got to go work, cant wait to see the november elections results, bye.

heh.

caughstealingstars · 12-16-2004, 08:01 AM

i've counted almost a dozen threads in my short time on this site all about how much everyone hates america, or how america sucks at music... why? would someone give me a good reason why america sucks so bad? i like it here decently,. i'm not saying i'd like it better then anywhere else but it's good enough for me to do what i want, when i want, so let's hear it

10-31-2004, 04:36 PM	#256 (permalink)
jibber Freeskier Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Istanbul was Constantinople now it's Istanbul not Constantinople... Posts: 1,536	starts singing ooohhh caannnaaddaa, our home and native land...... __________________ What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road. William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass. HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER

12-16-2004, 08:01 AM	#260 (permalink)
caughstealingstars Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: wisconsin Posts: 36	Why does everyone hate america??? i've counted almost a dozen threads in my short time on this site all about how much everyone hates america, or how america sucks at music... why? would someone give me a good reason why america sucks so bad? i like it here decently,. i'm not saying i'd like it better then anywhere else but it's good enough for me to do what i want, when i want, so let's hear it