The Big Bostonian Vs. The Croatster (country, American, speakers, quote)

DontRunMeOver · 01-06-2007, 01:47 PM

Or it was until Wikipedia came along! (the rest of the internet too, but that's generally not as useful). Now its just easier to know about things which happen in a countries where you can speak or read the language.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 01-06-2007, 02:03 PM

So i`m reading this thread and all that enters my head is the fact that the Super Furry Animals biggest selling album in the U.S. is their welsh language one Mnwg.

right-track · 01-06-2007, 02:22 PM

This argument began in good humour.
On close inspection, Big3's question about the Welsh language included a tongue in cheek reference to Elvin.
addidsss's response was also along the same vein.

However, it soon became obvious that a nerve had been touched.
If I was American, the constant references to 'our' ignorance would irritate me also.
As does the average American's knowledge of European and other cultures, irritates me.

And last time I looked, knowledge and intelligence were two different things.
Does it make a person ignorant and stupid, if they don't know that the Welsh language, is an actual working language and not some garbled dialect from a Tolkien novel?

If I was Welsh would that bother me? Probably.
Does it really matter? Not really.

Would it make me intelligent if I said that there are more Welsh speaking people living in Argentina, than there are in Wales?
Intelligent, no. Knowledgeable, yes.

Would it make the average Welsh person, stupid and ignorant for not knowing that fact, (which I guarantee they won't.)
Nope.

But should we care?
I think we should. It makes life far more interesting.

And Urban...is that band really made up of Welsh speaking furry animals?

adidasss · 01-06-2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

I love how you just side step loopholes in your reasoning. Law school must be paying off. So what you're saying is that the only way in which I "come off incorrectly intelligent" to paraphrase a line is because I have a large vocabulary? And because of all the things I do that would tip me off to the larger world events I should know welsh was spoken? And because I'm 24 and am college educated I shouldn't be allowed to ask on a music message board?

Yeah, that's what I said didn't I?

Quote:

You're far more arrogant than the Americans on these boards combined.

Well of course I am, you would be too if your spelling was better than most of the native speakers of some language.

Quote:

And how does america have no culture?

American culture is an amalgamation of various european, african and asian cultures with thousands of years of history. It's not that you don't have a culture, it's just that it fails in comparison to all other, say , european ones....Italy, Germany, France, Spain, Great Britain, China, India, Greece....all have contributed far more to the world as a whole than America has. When americans wanna get cultured, they head for Europe.....

Quote:

These are the aruguments I see as half-assed and underdeveloped for the sake of winning. I'm sure you over-looked the invention of Jazz, Citizen Kane, Angels in America, The Great Gatsby, Capitilism and Freedom, or any other great work American produced. And why?

I'll tell you why, it's because I love to get a rise out of you people. And it's fascinating how efficient calling you "stupid americans" is. You don't see any europeans getting all hissy about being labeled stupid.

Plus, I think it's wonderful how you forgot that I'm even more fascinated with America than I am with the U.K. I speak with what can be construed as an american accent, I mostly listen to american music, I mostly watch american films and tv shows etc.

Quote:

Let me also point out that I don't think you're intelligent because you know the answers to trivial pursuit questions, live and Europe and worship England.

Too bad I'm fully aware of my real intelligence so no matter what anyone says, I won't care much aye?

Quote:

And your standard of what everyone should know, and to take it a step further, what constitues someone as intelligent is another shining example of this European mindset that we hear stereotyped in our conservative media, and that the logical people disregard only to have it reinforced by some irrelevent poster on a music forum.

Take that back!! I am not irrelevant!! I am somebody. I am a person goddamn you and I matter! :cries a little:

Quote:

What makes you any more intelligent than someone who fixes cars, or develops AI, or knows how to settle disputes better than the rest of the feild. The bottom line is, there is no standard of intelligece.

Sure there is, it's called an IQ .

Quote:

Do borrow from the post-modernists "everything is perspective based." Your arrogance is our humility, our brilliance is your stupidity. It doesn't make it right, it makes it what you think, and as you've shown us time and again, what you think is just arrogant pretence.

What I think is all that matters.

Quote:

I don't know what the standard of living here would be since I've stated a thousand times now that each state is diffrent.

Oh Lord, you do insist on this don't you. Yeah, the standard of living in every goddamn country differs from province to province, from county to county, how much more micro-oriented can we get?! But as a whole, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that the standard of living in any state in the U.S. is better than say, in Mongolia ( yeah, that's a real country ).

Quote:

In MA, all civil unions are legal, and we're passing legisaltion on universal healthcare, in South Dakota none of that is the case and abortion is illegal. The cost of living and taxes changes state to state, and how politics are run changes state to state. I don't know what the "american standard of living" is but we're all (you included) post-modern post industrial cities. Obesity and Diabeties are the main issues within the society, the biggest problem for most people in the Western First-world is what to watch on television that night. So if by standard of living you mean who gets more channels, well then there I'll say im being a stupid american again, I don't know who has better television programming.

But you do understand that if one of your biggest problems is obesity, you've got it pretty good right?

Quote:

And since whe is Europe seperated by an Ocean from Asia?

I was thinking more of distance. And since you resent me for only picking points I want to argue and disregarding others, how about you proving to me that Boston is the educational capital of the world?

DontRunMeOver · 01-06-2007, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track

Would it make me intelligent if I said that there are more Welsh speaking people living in Argentina, than there are in Wales?
Intelligent, no. Knowledgeable, yes.

Wrong, yes.

adidasss · 01-06-2007, 03:08 PM

Haha, David did you perhapse mean "welsh people living in Argentina"?

DontRunMeOver · 01-06-2007, 03:28 PM

^That would also be wrong! He's just making it up as he goes along!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

But you do understand that if one of your biggest problems is obesity, you've got it pretty good right?

Actually, I would say here that I'm consistently surprised by how many Americans I've met* who (on a practial level) haven't been able to grasp how **** many other people in the world's living standards are and what kind of issues they have to deal with on a daily basis and how real and unavoidable those issues are. Maybe people from other rich countries tend to suffer the same reality shock when they realise what people meant by their high "standard of living" and just don't show it... but I don't think this is the case.

right-track · 01-06-2007, 03:35 PM

How many Welsh people living in Wales speak Welsh? What figures you got Tom?

An approximate 25,000 people in Argentina (United's Gabriel Heinze being one) speak Welsh in Patagonia (in the Chubut province of Argentina), they are descendants of colonists.

DontRunMeOver · 01-06-2007, 04:00 PM

I'm going from these figures (the box on the right of the linked page)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_language

There was another page which explained how although there were many people who went from Wales to join the Welsh colony in the Chubut valley in patagonia*, such that there are tens of thousands of people in Argentina with Welsh ancestry some political leader during the mid 20th century banned Welsh from being used in many official/business settings throughout the country and this, similar anti-welsh language actions and the simple fact that the national language of Argentina is Spanish means that many of the people of Welsh heritage can't actually speak Welsh, many took up Spanish as their first language as its much more useful to them.

Can't find that page now though.

*Welsh Colony - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_s...t_of_Argentina

TheBig3 · 01-06-2007, 04:05 PM

You know adidasss. You don't seem to be creating any points of your own, more so just refuting arguments I make and then doing so as if you're above everything thats ebing said here. Make some points for your country since I'm defending my state. Don't cower behind the EU and all of their economic power, as european as you try to make yourself, im fairly certain that Croatia isn't one of countries people think of. Hell, you're not even in the EU you poor ****, good luck with the application though.

People go to Europe for culture? Thats funny, people come to Boston to get educated...if you can make it here. Oh and going back on that melting pot thing, in '03, my graduating class spoke 70 languages fluently. How many did yours speak?

I do understand that obesity is a good thing. but its one side of the coin. I mean, while illness is a serious issue, large swaths of Mexico don't have garbage because no one can afford to waste things. I find that somewhat admirable, which is a symptom of the third world. The conveient life style of the west would never allow for such things.

Also its hard to say you spell better (I'll admit I'm a terrible speller as you and Merkaba so elequently pointed out) than people of a native language when theres multiple difrent spellings of many words in a language. I realize I'm engaging in semantics battles here, but if we're assaulting peoples use of language, namely mine, you don't seem to have mastered the parentheticals yet. Granted, you speak every other language better than I do, but then again I'm not condeming your French.

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01-06-2007, 02:03 PM	#42 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,605	So i`m reading this thread and all that enters my head is the fact that the Super Furry Animals biggest selling album in the U.S. is their welsh language one Mnwg. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.

01-06-2007, 03:08 PM	#46 (permalink)
adidasss Slavic gay sauce Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Abu Dhabi Posts: 7,993	Haha, David did you perhapse mean "welsh people living in Argentina"? __________________ “Think of what a paradise this world would be if men were kind and wise.” - Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle. Last.fm

01-06-2007, 04:05 PM	#50 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	You know adidasss. You don't seem to be creating any points of your own, more so just refuting arguments I make and then doing so as if you're above everything thats ebing said here. Make some points for your country since I'm defending my state. Don't cower behind the EU and all of their economic power, as european as you try to make yourself, im fairly certain that Croatia isn't one of countries people think of. Hell, you're not even in the EU you poor ****, good luck with the application though. People go to Europe for culture? Thats funny, people come to Boston to get educated...if you can make it here. Oh and going back on that melting pot thing, in '03, my graduating class spoke 70 languages fluently. How many did yours speak? I do understand that obesity is a good thing. but its one side of the coin. I mean, while illness is a serious issue, large swaths of Mexico don't have garbage because no one can afford to waste things. I find that somewhat admirable, which is a symptom of the third world. The conveient life style of the west would never allow for such things. Also its hard to say you spell better (I'll admit I'm a terrible speller as you and Merkaba so elequently pointed out) than people of a native language when theres multiple difrent spellings of many words in a language. I realize I'm engaging in semantics battles here, but if we're assaulting peoples use of language, namely mine, you don't seem to have mastered the parentheticals yet. Granted, you speak every other language better than I do, but then again I'm not condeming your French. __________________ I've moved to a new address

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01-06-2007, 02:22 PM	#43 (permalink)
right-track Atchin' Akai Join Date: May 2005 Location: Unamerica Posts: 8,723	This argument began in good humour. On close inspection, Big3's question about the Welsh language included a tongue in cheek reference to Elvin. addidsss's response was also along the same vein. However, it soon became obvious that a nerve had been touched. If I was American, the constant references to 'our' ignorance would irritate me also. As does the average American's knowledge of European and other cultures, irritates me. And last time I looked, knowledge and intelligence were two different things. Does it make a person ignorant and stupid, if they don't know that the Welsh language, is an actual working language and not some garbled dialect from a Tolkien novel? If I was Welsh would that bother me? Probably. Does it really matter? Not really. Would it make me intelligent if I said that there are more Welsh speaking people living in Argentina, than there are in Wales? Intelligent, no. Knowledgeable, yes. Would it make the average Welsh person, stupid and ignorant for not knowing that fact, (which I guarantee they won't.) Nope. But should we care? I think we should. It makes life far more interesting. And Urban...is that band really made up of Welsh speaking furry animals?

01-06-2007, 03:35 PM	#48 (permalink)
right-track Atchin' Akai Join Date: May 2005 Location: Unamerica Posts: 8,723	How many Welsh people living in Wales speak Welsh? What figures you got Tom? An approximate 25,000 people in Argentina (United's Gabriel Heinze being one) speak Welsh in Patagonia (in the Chubut province of Argentina), they are descendants of colonists.