The belief before Jesus died was that the bible was law. But nobody could follow it to the dot. Besides, I always remove my cross before I "sin" and I pray for repentence every night for my teenage hormones.

The fact that you have to ask for forgiveness for not immolating your father and mother after sex on her period is a severe moral flaw on the part of your religion.
Maybe you're a good person for not following the ridiculous laws of the Bible, but the Bible certainly isn't a good book for putting forth the laws in the first place.

the whole walking on water business is way better then any of David Blaine's material.

your catholic right? just a ...WILD guess

seriously, on top of that he gave someone else the ability to do it.

but honestly, resurrection ftw! (both giving and receiving.... and who said jesus didn't have a humorous side :laughing: )

Worse. "Reborn" baptist.
lol.

And by the way, if I talk about religion, most of the time I'm joking around. I'm far from being a bible basher.

My Favorite Topic besides Music is religion...

One statement: There is no God.

One question: Does anyone really believe there is?

One Answer: No, of course not.

One conclusion: Religion is rubbish to those who think it through, but helpful in guiding a large percentage of those who don't through life effectively.

ayo, you ever go from tha club back to sum bitches pad an therez a littl yappy dog dat try jumpin on tha bed an lickin yo face whne you tryin to **** son?

i got dog hair all ova my fly threadz son.

We agree on something.

1. Your post is unclear because it isn't very specific as to what I should and shouldn't do.

2. Give me you references to your information, which they are most likely found in Leviticus I would believe.

3. If I didn't care about everything the Bible says I would neither claim to be Christian, nor be here defending it. I sure as heck care about the Bible says. After all I would be killed for it.

Faith without works is dead. End of discussion.

You know what is so funny. I am told Christians are the most narrow minded people and then I see someone do this, which leads me to believe something was lost in the translation. Honestly, if you judge a religion by the people who follow it then you have a serious problem.

Care to explain why you call it fantasy. You can't prove it wrong and you can't prove it right so I don't see how it can be called fantasy.

Maybe for the first five minutes, but you won't have contact with anyone for the rest of eternity so that would suck.
HI I LIKE TO MAKE FUN OF CHRISTIANS BECAUSE IT MAKES ME FEEL LIKE I AM 1337 AND COOL. I MEAN YOU BARELY HAVE TO PRESENT ANY PROOF TO MAKE FUN OF THEM BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY US AND BARELY ANY OF THEM THAT IT IS SO EASY.

KBYE.

Explain the bold.

Reference please.

@Inuzuka Skysword

It's all right to believe, I am just saying the entire notion is preposterous to me. It is fantasy however by definition and I wonder why anyone who truly believed would ever be concerned with what anyone else thought or did.

Don't deny non-believers or anti-theists the right to call it fantasy as it fits the definition perfectly. Like Dragons, Unicorns and Leprechauns there is not a shred of evidence that God exists. And of course in the case of all four the absence of disproof is not at all evidence of proof.

I'd also ask you to consider how arrogant religion is to those who choose not to partake. The thought that you made the right choice out of the tens of thousands of religions that have existed since time began, beyond arrogant is it not?

Believe if you want to believe, many people find solace in spirituality or faith, I find it in the faces of the people I love.

You will lose this argument. That isn't arrogance speaking, just experience.

The two specific laws I alluded to are, in fact from Leviticus Ch. 20, Verses 9-21.
Those are but a few of the Bibles glorious laws, however, and only a minute fraction of the complete dispicability of Yaweh. Any book which condones the murder of those who do work on Saturday (Sunday) ex. Exodus 31:15, then gives an example of this murder ex. Numbers 15:32-36, committed by one of Christianity and Judaism's most revered figures (Moses), is not a book upon which I would base my moral code. In fact, you would have to be quite near psychotic to take these as morals.

Now, maybe you are one of those Christians who immediately throws up the excuse that Jesus Christ sacrificing himself on the cross excludes you from having to follow these "Old Testament Laws". Now, if you would like to go that route for your rebuttall, I would be glad to oblige you. I'll will just let you know, ahead of time, that argument will not stand up to the Bible. The very book which you derive your beliefs from, will very quickly kill that argument. Use it if you wish however.

Giving your life for a book equatable to Lord of the Rings is not a smart move.


I'm very happy that most Christians completely ignore their dispicable holy book.
The world would be chaos if Christians were bothered enough to read the word of God and take his words at face value.

Have I judged the religion by its adherants at all yet? Insofar as I can remember, the only thing which I have used to judge Christianity, is the Bible. Am I not allowed to judge the religion by its Holy Book?


Why do I call it fantasy?
How can you not see that it IS fantasy? Magic, mysticism, miracles, these are elements of fantasy, not fact.

"You can't prove it wrong or right"

And the winner for Worst Point of All Time is this.

Do you know what else science CAN'T prove wrong? Goblins, Unicorns (which the Bible mentions by the way), Trolls, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Celestial Teapot, Orcs, Bigfoot, The Invisible Pink Unicorn, Hobbits, Witches, Wizards, Elves, Fairies, Centaurs, Zeus, Apollo, Athena, just add Yaweh to that large list. Science cannot DISPROVE the existance of anything. Because these things cannot be disproven by science, you would be willing to assume they do exist? If that isn't flawed logic then I don't know what is.

Good thing no one will ever have to find out eh? Sad as it may be, Hitler, Pol Pot, you and I, will all encounter the exact same after-life.

Well, when you talk about how God is your savior, and we must bow down before our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, I can only thing of ancient Romans bowing before Jupiter, or the Norse worshipping Odin and Thor. Your religion is no different. No facet of it makes it more believable, it does not have an ounce more proof in favor of it than do any other religions which have ever existed.

Good god, dudes. Who cares about what he believes in? If he believes God exists, let him. Why not just go up to some 4 year old and tell them Santa isn't real?

Faith is based on believing, not seeing or knowing. It can't be disputed by either side. You can't argue for it or against it because it's all opinion. It's like the whole "True Metal vs. False Metal" argument.

So why exactly are you living your life. I cannot imagine a life in which there were no glorious end. Without Him my life, any life is meaningless because you're living it for the wrong reasons. Maybe you want to be the head of a major company, or the president, or the richest person in the whole world. Even if you get to that position, where are you at the end? YOU HAVE NOTHING. And God forbid that you're wrong and you end up in hell? I still aspire for big things, I'm not going to be stepped on or not work towards things because I believe that if I was meant for something that it'll just come to me. It is not a blind faith either(proof). The way I look at it, if you're going to live, at least live towards something, live FOR Someone and at the end you will be awarded greatly. Even if you are wrong, you were still a good person and will pass with a good conscience and good heart.

I admire your fervor and your knowledge on this subject, but the fact of the matter is that nothing you can say can shake my faith. I am a Roman Catholic, and despite what many may think, most of us are hardworking, respectable people. To any devout member of any organized religion, very little can be said that would cause them to stop believing, because only those people with doubts in their hearts and weak minds can be swayed. I do not see the Bible as law, it is merely a set of stories used to help influence you to do the right things. If others may see it as law, then that is fine with me. So, even if you brought me scientific proof that God didn't exist that was indisputible, I would still not stop believing in Him.


It also strikes me as odd, how you continually try to discredit an entire relgion, and then claim that the religion is arrogant. Although there are people who try to force their beliefs on others, I don't. So, in effect, everytime you tell me God isn't real and insult me for my faith, it's the same as me telling you you're going to Hell.

if you take the definition (or at least from what i understand as the definition) of god, then people should realize that you can neither prove nor disprove his existence. god is suppose to be something that is beyond nature and or comprehension, someone/something that is all powerful. so IF he does exist or IF he doesn't, we have no real way of knowing or proving it... so there is no point in arguing it either way. i understand that people present their views, but don't expect anyone to change their mind or believe you, just hope that if anything they get a better understanding of your reasoning or understanding.

people get the idea that we are so advanced that we can just make bold statements like "god is/isnt real". we are not so advanced to make such a claim, every bit of science that we know is just a really ****ty interpretation of what is really true. you see this as we must constantly adjust are rules and laws that govern it. all of these rules and laws have large assumptions that go along with them, and when you try and apply all the variables that come into play it becomes an impossible unsolvable equation. thus our science is like a stone age tool compared to what is true... in actuality it is much worse than that i just need a concrete example.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein

to me the idea of these people in history like muhammad, jesus, or any of the 'prophets' are just people who had a very clear interpretation of the universe they existed in. they understood things that nobody has come close to, thats why they amazed people. they tried to express what they could to the people around them and do their best to teach them how to obtain a similar understanding.

the best way i can try and explain it is like this. pretend you could only see in black and white. how could anyone ever explain to you what color is? how could you understand it? well these 'prophets' or 'holy men' had the ability to see color, and they did their best to help color our world for us. in this same statement of respect for those people, i don't think they should be WORSHIPED, but looked up to for guidance.

like i said the problem i have with organized religion is that often the people who profess it and are the 'leaders' often begin to lose the idea of being open minded, and it can become the blind leading the blind. then people only accept what someone tells them as being right and everything else is a sham. i think it is just as big of a sham for everyone to just write off the idea of a god because most modern scientist fail to interpret it. they have failed at a million things in the past and later realized they were wrong... who is to say that cant be the case. science should be more commonly accepted as a simple interpretation to what we can observe/comprehend.

"I didn't fail the test, I just found 100 ways to do it wrong."
Benjamin Franklin

your relationship with god, if you choose to have one, should be something personal. hopefully you will try and develop it and reach out to others and or these prominent 'prophets' in history who have understood more than most as guidance to your own understanding. always remember to think for yourself, and never take anything as being completely right or wrong. we exist in a shades of gray.

just my 2 cents.

I have no interest in discrediting any religion at all, just distancing myself from it. I was raised Catholic and the church community was full of wonderful people who did extraordinary things in the name in God. So again I hold no ill will nor do I wish to convert or change anyones personal faith.

The crux of my argument if I were to make one would be that
a) To the lesser evolved and more persecuted it is a rallying point for violence (I'll get to that briefly)
b)Most Christians do not 100% believe in God. I make this conclusion with great certainty based on several factors. Anyone who has ever stolen or cheated on the spouse for example could not believe in God as that is forbidden and the reward, Eternal Bliss, is far to great for any right minded person to chance it if they truly believed without doubt. An overwhelming percentage of prison inmates describe themselves as deeply religious. This is a good example for how religion started.

All living things die, and humans are the only living things on earth aware of that. That will blow your mind when you first come to grips with it as a species. You feel like you need answers, basic human instinct, but they are of course beyond your comprehension so you make them up.

Now you know there is some sort of "fiction" element to religion as the sheer variety of them causes constant contradiction. Really what you have is different cultures trying to convey values and morals to protect their children, another basic human instinct. What you end up is at first crude and causes a lot of God-envy and waring in the name of religion, eventually what you seem to get to is what we have today, (With the exception of Islamo-fascists) refined peaceful religions that preach loving your fellow man and being selfless.

I am an Atheist, but I have two children and a wife who are Christians. I have always told my children when they asked why they should learn about Jesus Christ and God when I did not believe in him. that story of Christ, is even if completely fictional is still a wonderful lesson on how to lead your life. They are married now and will likely raise their children as Christians as well.

I would argue that the fact that I don't believe there is an afterlife has made me value each day more because I believe my time is here is so small in the grand scheme of things and life is such a precious an amazing gift that I owe it to myself and the people I love to make the best of it.

I guess I'm not even the kind of person who says "There is no God" to mean that I know there is not, just to remind people who use their God as a reference that it is meaningless because I don't believe in any particular God in any religion.

By the by jgd I don't disagree with your logic at all, I would however argue that we might conclude based on how many forms or religion and mythology have been disproved or become archaic that those of this century might too reach and fall the same fate given time to run their course.

So many comments to debate here. I'll edit them in as I reply to them.

This is, once again, terribly flawed logic. There are a few things here.

1. You say that you could not imagine a life in which there were no glorious end. In this you very clearly lay the claim that your religion comforts you. That's fine, but because something comforts you, or makes you a better person, in no way makes it true. Telling a cancer patient that they do not have cancer and can look forward to the rest of their lives, would certainly comfort an otherwise scared person, this does not however, change the fact that they will die of cancer. Next, suppose atheism made you the worst person in the world. All atheists are misogynistic, racist, megalomaniacle maniacs (a series of discriptions which describe your God rather well, ironically). All of these horrible characteristics of atheism would not change the fact that God does not exist. Realizing there is no god could turn you into a psychotic killer, and the fact that God does not exist would not be shaken. So, comfort =/= truth. This should be obvious. And 'making you a good person' =/= truth.

2. "And God forbid that you're wrong and end up in hell"

What a nieve thing to say. Suppose that you're wrong. You've spent your life dedicated to Yaweh, when it turns out that Allah is the one true God.
By your logic, you may as well become a Muslim, because if that whole Christianity thing doesn't work out in the end, you're gonna be screwed. God forbid you're wrong...

Can't you see why that reasoning is completely wrong? There are thousands of religions, what are the chances that YOURS is right? Pascals Wager was disproved the same day he developed it, you certainly don't do it any justice.

3. "Even if you get in that position, what are you in the end? YOU HAVE NOTHING"

Again, just because your religion brings comfort to you, does not make it true. This builds upon both of the replies I've already given. You've spent your life devoted to Yaweh, and Allah is the true God. Now, not only do you have nothing, but you are burning to death in the pits of hell for eternity. Take up Islam, it is the only way, by your logic, to save yourself.

Also, I resent the statement that atheists have nothing. Sure, upon death we will all have nothing, just like we were nothing before birth. But, during my life I am not restrained to the laws of some ancient book, and I am not guilt ridden and subject to the admonishment of pious men. I feel that the religious waste their lives for something so trivial and ridiculous, I cannot even fathom the amount disconnect in ones brain that would lead them to devote themselves to God. Let alone give their life for him. That is plain silly, especially since, after death, it will be painstakingly obvious to you that you believed in a myth your whole life. Or, considering your consciouness will die with your body, you won't be aware of the waste that your life was after all.

4. Your website is a joke. The first sentece lies to you. Right off the bat these religious folk have lied. Can they not prove their point without lying? There must be something wrong with your case when you have to lie to prove it.

"There is no scientific fact that discredits the Bible"

Hello? Seven days of creation, humans on the 6th day. The earth has been in existance for 4+ Billion years, humans have been around for about 2 million years. You can do the subtraction there and realize that it equates to a little more than 6 days of difference. Of course though, Christians have to put all kind of spin on their Bible to dispute anything.

"Who knows?! Days could mean hundreds of millions of years"

He is the creator of all things in your mind right? If that is what he meant, don't you think that he, as God, could at least make it clear? Any 10 year old can interpret those verses in Genesis and take out of it that God created the world in 6 days. If God really meant to say that he created the Earth and the things which populate it over the course of 3+ billion years, I believe, that if he truly is the creator of all things, he would be able to articulate his point better. Or maybe a better scientific disproof of Bible stories would be the notion that humans were created in their present state. Which we know for a fact to be false. Perhaps the story of the man who spent two weeks inside a whale, a physically impossible thing to do, is better disproof? Again, it takes all sorts of spin and off-the-wall interpretations for you to make sense of your Bible, to make it logical.

5. "At least you will pass with a good consciousness and a good heart"

Atheists cannot have good hearts and good conscienceness? The fact that some of the greatest philanthropists have been atheists and some of the biggest crooks and tyrants have been clergymen or religious men says a good deal on that if you ask me. Secondly, I really doubt that Allah is going to care how greatly you devoted your life to being a heretic in the eyes of his religion, you're still spending eternity in hell.

This I also disagree with immensly, and believe your logic is quite off. How does it take a weak mind to be swayed AWAY from religion, when nealry 70% of the worlds population, and 98% of this country claim to adhere to some faith? Religion is genetic. You are a Roman Catholic because your parents are very likely Roman Catholic. If you were born in India you would be a Hindu, and had you the misfortune of being born in Saudi Arabia you would likely be a Muslim. Indoctrination accounts for (obviously there are no statistics to back this up, because no religious person will seriously consider the possibility that the only reason they are religious IS indoctrination) probably 80% of religious faith on the planet. In many countries, swaying away from some faith can get you killed. Yet it takes a weak mind to sway from a religion which is quite obviously charlatan? Like I said, I disagree.

Also, your last sentence in the first paragraph is not something to be proud of.
What we call those words strung together in that way, is ignorance. Yes, the religious call it faith, but any rational person calls it ignorance. You will never hear a scientist say that "Even if undisputable scientific proof was laid before me which contradicted Natural Selection, I would continue to believe in Darwinian evolution"

That scientist would be laughed out of every university in the world. Obviously, it is different with the religious. You would likely be commended for that exceptionally ignorant comment. Anyway, onto your next paragraph.

Believing that the creator of the entire universe wishes to have a person and intimate relationship with YOU, and only others who adhere to the same belief system as your, is arrogant. I know that I am part of a much larger cycle of life on this planet, which is a minute part of this solar system which is a blip in this galaxy, which is a spec of dust on the infinite black that is this universe. That is the Milky Way compared with this Universe, imagine yourself compared to it. Believing that, of all the planets in all the solar systems in all the galaxies (of which there are billions, hence trillions of planets) in the entire universe, THIS is the only one which God visisted and decided to sprinkle his divine light on, is exceedingly arrogant. Also exceedingly ignorant.

1. Lack of disproof is not evidence for proof. Science cannot disporve Santa Claus or Goblins either, should we reasonalbly say that it is irrational to claim that Goblins do not exist? By your logic, since we cannot disprove it, it is not irrational to claim that goblins exist. You get pegged into corners like that when you try to draw out that argument. Science is not based on disproof. It is impossible to disprove the existance of anything. That certainly doesn't mean that we should have people like you going around, in futile attempts to be fair, saying things like:


"people get the idea that we are so advanced that we can just make bold statements like "Unicorns are/aren't real"

Give me a break.

2. You sure do take science for granted. I suppose it is this ****ty understanding of science that we have, which allows us to create medicines which save millions of lives. I guess those medicines are just flukes? After all, we have such a ****ty understanding of science that those discoveries couldn't possibly be based on sound science. That's preposterous. Maybe the fact that, using Evolution by Natural Selection, we have been able to predict what fossils it is that we are missing, make predictions of where those fossils likely are, and then find them. Fluke? Is this coincidence? There are millions of locations on the earth that we could choose to dig, and billions of depths we could choose to dig to, which leaves about 1,000,000 x 1,000,000,000 different combinations of places to dig. But this ****ty science led us to the right spot, more than once. What are the chances of that happening? None. People want to try and take away from what science can explain in order to be fair to the religious, because for some reason it is taboo to critisize someones religious faith. I can critisize anything about you, but if I critisize the one thing that makes you who you are, then I have crossed the line. Science should stop using disclaimers in an effort to facilitate stone age ideology. You're not helping.

3. Albert Einstein was not religious. If you would bother to read anything about him, or what is refered to as 'Einsteinian Religion', you most likely wouldn't have used that quote. If you did read about Einsteinian religion, and read about that quote, and used it anyway, you would know full well that you were misleading if not outright lying to people in using it. I encourage you to just google that quote. Learn something about his stance on religion before you quote him on it.

4. If there is a God, he surely does nothing, and is therefore useless in his existance. We do not need him to explain abiogenesis or the origins of the Universe. The religious, and you, like to play God of the Gaps here. Whatever cannot be explained by science is filled in by God. "Well, what caused the origin of the Universe?! Huh? Huh? Whats that? You can't explain it? Yeah, thats because God did it!"

COP OUT.

Saying 'God did it" to fill in holes helps you learn nothing, helps you understand nothing. That statement just shows me that people are content with not knowing. Thats fine, but not for a scientist. Once the orgin of the universe is explain by science (sometimes called Physic's Origin of Species"), the religious will have to find other God shaped holes in science to throw their beliefs into, just as they had to do when Darwin presented his theory of evolution by Natural Selection.

i guess you didnt really pay attention to my post all all.

i do not use god to fill gaps, i never came close to saying that so i have no idea where that is coming from. i have a much different belief than you like to aimlessly peg on people... but i guess that comes along with being ignorant and close minded.

those medicines (your so proud of them) that we create also cause more problems, so i believe it is very safe to say we have a ****ty interpretation. take vicodin for example, this great medicine has helped cure people of their pain and in the process got millions of people helplessly addicted to it. which causes liver failure... which is painful... so i guess we arent always so smart after all.

im an engineer myself, what do you do for a living? i can tell you about how great science is. i believe in evolution and the big bang... they are huge discoveries/theories which are very likely to be true. what they didnt do is disprove god. you to sit here and think that because we exist on a planet in this solar system in this galaxy in which their are billions upon billions of that we have a clue what the **** we know... id say your crazy. there is more stars in the universe than all the sand on all the beaches on this planet and we can barely ****in land on the moon. so ya i would say that we dont really have **** for understanding, otherwise we could bend time space and warp to those other planents... i mean cmon arent we that smart?

but listen, honestly i dont care if you dont believe in god, like i said its all about your own personal thing. you can call it a crutch, you can call it a cop out, you can say whateve you like. i do however laugh at the idea that you think YOU could disprove god... hell id even put my money on unicorns over that bull****.

I guess you aren't reading my post, and are just replying blindly.

Any scientific credentials you claim to have are completely discredited by your failure to understand the fundamental concept that lack of disproof is not evidence of proof. Quit touting that I am claiming I can disprove God. This is the entire crux of your post and anyone with two eyes and a brain between then could read what I said multiple times. We cannot disprove God, we also cannot disprove Unicorns or Goblins. So phonies like you coming in and making statements like:

"people get the idea that we are so advanced that we can just make bold statements like "god is/isn't real"

Don't be so ridiculous. Are you willing to come out and say that arguing over the existance of Trolls is futile because we cannot disprove them? If you are not willing to say that, then you cannot even get through the course of one argument without contradicting your own logic. That is a severe flaw in your argument. Disproving God means nothing. I cannot disprove God. I cannot disprove the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Invisible Pink Unicorn either, and it is glaringly obvious that all three do not exist. Just because it is more acceptable to believe that one of those exists over the other two, does not change the fact that all three are equally implausable.

So please, don't attribute things which I have never once claimed to me.
More than anything it makes you look foolish. If you can show me a single instance where I claimed I could disprove God, then show it to me.

this is after you tell me that i use god to fill gaps, when in no way shape or form have i ever done such a thing. seems a bit hipocritical.

besides you telling me im foolish for doing something you in fact yourself did first....

here is what i said previously "so IF he does exist or IF he doesn't, we have no real way of knowing or proving it... so there is no point in arguing it either way"

here is what you said "lack of disproof is not evidence of proof"

people like you just want something to argue about...

too many long posts.

not discharging your gun regularly increases the chance of testicular cancer. look it up.

A lesson to those who have not learned it.

While living with a girl friend in a one bedroom apartment in the 1970's I was ordered to stop servicing myself, I did so despite much protest for four weeks until one night when my body took care of it for me. It's natural folks, if you don't do it, your subconscious will. A humorous sidebar, my knack for sleeping in the nude and her restlessness resulted in a "sticky" wake-up which I strongly feel she deserved.

Hahahahahahahah:rofl:

Well where would be the sense in telling them they do not have cancer? That has NO relavence. But this "cancer patient" could still learn the word of God and be promised that at the end they would reach a place with no pain or suffering. And this would comfort them.

I am more than willing to take that chance.

Excuse me, there is NOTHING disconnected in my brain. I am a bright young woman with a VERY promising future, and I still give my heart and soul, mind and body, into a purpose so great that I cannot fathom why anyone could be atheist. I've been through crisis. There were a few years in which I lost sight. Got into drugs, heavy drinking, dabbled in some sexual encounters, even became suicidal with my actions. And they were the worst years of my life(although they WERE the most fun I've ever had:thumb: ). But I lost sight of the end of the road. I was too interested in being a typical teenager that I did not notice the fork in the road and I took the wrong route. Now that I've returned to religion I am happy again. And I still drink, although I've quit experimenting in drugs and prematial sex is limited to one person(my fiance). And I am not guilt ridden the slightest bit because I know that I am forgiven.

It has been discussed that a day could mean something more. Have you ever told someone "It'll only take a minute" and it takes fifteen minutes? It is like that. It even describes dinosaurs in the bible.

Never said that atheists cannot be good people.

Maybe God really intended us to party our lives away...

He DID turn that water into wine. Rofl.

The Bible is ridiculous. It's all about the Torah. Anyhoo, the Bible has been translated/interpretated too much to really be the word of God or whatever.

Depends on the version, how old it is, what language, blah blah blah but the message is still there.

The Bible would be pure if each Bible was made like a Torah.

The Torah contains half the bible mate...

When I made the statement about you saying "we think we can make bold statements like Unicorns are/aren't real", I copy/pasted your exact words, and switched Unicorn with God. Those are your exact words, and if you are going to apply them to God, then, following your logic, it must be applied to all things which science cannot disprove, which includes all of the aforesaid things, Unicorns, Goblins, trolls, etc. Why can't you say that it is futile to argue the existance of goblins? Will you say that? You do see that your logic only leads me to that argument right? Which is a completely valid one. The fact that you cannot disprove it does not mean that the notion that he is real or unreal are equally unsupported.

So unless you can honestly come out and say that it is pointless to argue the existance of goblins, trolls, mermaids, the flying spaghetti monster, and unicorns, your point has been pretty much beaten. You can't even hold up to your own logic. You want to derail this by calling me a hipocrite. Stick with the argument. When I attributed beliefs to you which you didn't hold, you said you didn't hold them. I did the same with you. That is over, you mentioning that sidetracks this argument which you cannot win, unless you bring yourself to say what I have stated earlier.

It does have relevance. It is called a metaphor. A person who goes into the doctors office (a person who is born), for a cancer test because he has a lump on his back, is told that he does not have cancer (will not die, but have everlasting life) and will continue to live the rest of his life, even though he does have cancer and his death is imminent (even though when you die, your life is over). The releif he will get from being told he does not have cancer is comforting. Just like your belief that you will join god in a palace in the sky after you die is comforting. You cannot accept the fact that when you die, you are gone. Thats it, your life is over. So you gloss it over with wonderful stories of a magical palace in the sky where all your loved ones are and no one ever really dies and we all live happily ever after. Isn't that cute. Just because something gives you comfort does not make it true.


See, there is no chance. You could honestly believe that our souls will be returned to the immortal turtle who created us all, and we will all continue our after life in his protective shell. That doesn't change the fact that it is untrue, and when you die, you are dead. There are thousands and thousands of Gods, Yaweh is one of them. I know you think you are all devoted and whatnot, but so do every other adherant of every other religion. Your faith isn't special, all religious people claim they have it. The suicide bombers who are willing to strap bombs on themselves for their God, truly believe. Are they just wrong? And you're right? Allah is wrong, Yaweh is right? How about those billion other adherants to thousands of different religions? They're all wrong about God and you've got it right? Because on the off chance that the real God is the Great African JuJu, you will really be ****ed. When it comes down to it, Yaweh has no more evidence for his existance than Zeus does. The religious in this day and age for some reason view people who held those beliefs (which we know classify as 'mythology') were somehow backward, yet they've got it all figured out. Like the Romans beliefs were ridiculous but theirs are warranted. It is all the same, untrue.

Just think about it, people do not base ANY other of their beliefs on ZERO evidence, except God.
No one just up and believes that the core of the earth is made of marshmellow, just because. There is no evidence that the core of the earth is made of marshmellow. There is no evidence that God exists. Why is it widely accepted that God exists but not widely accepted that the core of the earth is made of marshmellow? There is equal evidence to support both, but the religious just throw their beliefs into God because their parents did, and their parents did, etc. etc.

Next, assuming God does exist, once again, what are the chances that the real God is Yaweh?
Yaweh seems like a pathetic God to me anyways. Desperate for people to believe in him.

Anyway, none of this matters because there is no evidence to support the existance of a God. If you can show me what evidence you base your faith on (there is none, hence the definition of faith being 'an unalterable belief in something based on no evidence'), then maybe I can see where you are coming from. The fact is that your faith is blind. Based on no evidence, just indoctrination. Or perhaps some 'religious experience' that you think you felt after all those 'tough times' in your life, which can be explained in a myriad of ways, and to assume that it must have been God is ridiculous.


I would say that to believe in something unshakably, even though there is absolutely nothing that supports your claim, requires some amount of disconnect in the brain. In this day and age at least. Hundreds of years ago, before things could be adequately explained, religion was key. It answered peoples questions, sort of. It answered them in a very cop-out way, but they were answers. Christianity is an origin myth just like every backward African religion is, just like Islam is, just like what we refer to as Norse and Roman and Greek mythology is. No different. The fact that you seem to think it is an more validifiable also, I believe, requires a little disconnect.

And as I said before, and type of religious experience which you think you may have felt after all those 'tough times', can be explained in many other ways. Assuming they were messages from God, or callings to become religious or something like that is just silly.

"I was drunk, fell down and nailed my head quite hard. As I was delirious, spinning, and still quite drunk, I got a message from God which called me to be religious."

I'm not saying that this is how your 'experience' or whatever happened, but the conclusions I drew in my scenario are just as ridiculous as whatever conclusions you seem to have drawn from yours.

Yeah, but the people who say things like that are human. This is the creator of the universe and all things in it. I would like to think that he has the ability to make himself clear. Also, I mentioned other things which are undeniably false in the Bible, and you don't mention them. Rightfully so, as there is no denying the fact that a human could not survive in the stomach of a whale for two weeks. Also I believe the Bible does mentiono dinosaurs in the bible, though it refers to them as dragons, with humans walking right alongside them. Another statement in the Bible which we know to be 100% false. The fact is the Bible doesn't hold up to scientific scrutiny.

No, this is also false.

The Bible was first compiled around 400 C.E. It was handcopied, obviously, by Monks who were already devout Christians. They believed that Jesus Christ fulfilled all the scriptures. So, when, as they were copying and compiling the books which constitute the Bible, and they came across stories in which Jesus Christ did NOT fulfil a scripture, they ADDED it in. It was natural to them, Jesus fulfilled the scripture, so the fact that this book does not say anything about him fulfilling the scripture MUST be a mistake on the part of the original author of the text. Therefore they added bits and pieces which led to Jesus' fulfillment of all the scriptures, even if the orginal texts said nothing of the sort. They 'corrected' these errors in the texts just like you would correct grammar errors in a Lit paper.

Another good example of this is the treatment of Mary. In the original Hebrew texts, Mary was described as 'almah' or a 'young woman', when this was translated into Greek, the word 'almah' was mistranslated into 'parthenos' which means virgin in Greek. The pope however, decided he liked this mistranslation and now it has crept its way into the belief system of all Christians. Isn't it funny how your religion works.

i dont think you are reading what i am saying are you? your like a child, you just want to pick a fight. i understand you might not be the brightest tool in the shed, so i will start once again from the top.

'Lack of disproof is not evidence for proof'. this is what you keep telling me. SUPER! i agree with you, lack of disproof doesn't mean something exist.... but im not saying that something exist... i am saying we cannot prove or disprove gods existence and therefore saying 'god isn't real' is a bull**** statement that cannot be backed up.

it goes both ways lack of disproof is not evidence for proof, and lack of proof (that he doesn't exist) is not evidence for disproof.... so STFU and quit trying to tell me i am wrong when all i said was that WE DON'T ****ING KNOW!

now please come back with another quote of what i said, followed by some retarded monkey ass argument that stems from nothing.

And, just like I said you would, instead of saying the one thing that would validate your argument in the only way it could be validated (namely, by admitting that you are an idiot), you decided to take it off track with a bunch of talk. Like you're some sort of politician. Maybe you're the child. And I believe the phrase you are looking for there is 'sharpest tool in the shed'.

So, when you can think clearly enough to see the fact that YOU CANNOT EVEN USE CONSISTENT LOGIC, maybe you can get past trying to insult me. I could easily call you a ****ing moron, but I've restrained myself. :)

Your logic is so phony its ridiuclous. You'll use this reasoning for God, why not anything else?
I guess that 'monkey ass' is the word you use to describe arguments that you cannot beat.

Until you can answer why your logic seems to apply to God, yet nothing else that we cannot disprove, and it is a rational answer, I just cannot take you seriously. Good day.

how am i side tracking? i quoted what i said, then what you said, and showed how what you said doesn't even apply to what i said.

how is my logic faulty? i said we cannot prove or disprove gods existence, thats it. so i didn't even take a stance. you however are sitting here telling me that god ISN'T real. so where is your logic? where is your proof? i agreed with you 'lack of disproof is not evidence of proof' but i am not trying to prove anything YOU ARE.