TheDonald

There is no compromise when it comes to unwarranted murder.

Wayfarer

They both constitute murder. Killing a child generally wouldn't benefit society, but aborting an unborn one could have its benefits. First, as Crowquill mentioned, legalizing abortion would leave us with far less rape victims giving birth. Second, legalizing abortion would leave us with far less women unfit to raise children giving birth. Third, and most importantly, legalizing abortion would provide an avenue out of some situations in which a pregnant woman's health is at risk (or situations in which the fetus' health is at risk).

Unwarranted? It's absolutely warranted in most cases. Christ, it's not like women are going around getting pregnant, waiting a couple of months and aborting the fetuses for the hell of it.

tkpb938

The problem with the abortion argument is that it is one mother of a grey area. It's all about where you think the line is of what is "life" and what's not, and honestly there's no real way to judge so we are left with a conundrum.

For instance you could compare a fetus to a person who is in a coma who will wake up. They both are unconscious. Neither can feel. But obviously neither want to die.

While I see the argument for why some might think its okay, I truly don't think it is. There are just so many better answers. The movie "Juno" immediately comes to mind. Very good movie BTW.

sleepy jack

In situations like teenage pregnancy which are primarily in my experience where abortions happen the father usually leave. This just happened with a friend very recently in fact and you can hardly expect a rapist to stick around now can you? Also childbirth is painful not many woman want to go through with it.

I repeat, childbirth is painful. If it was just likeshitting out a child more people would probably go through with it and then if more people went through with it we'd start having problems housing all these children because everyone who didn't want their child would put them up for adoption. I'm not big on population control type theories, in fact I detest them, but fetuses aren't humans they could be but so could other things I won't get into that is unnecessarily vulgar yet we don't impose a ban on self-pleasure.

Um...most people going to abort their child usually feel pretty strongly about getting it aborted and in some cases birthing the child isn't an option for both the fetus and the mother. There would be back alley abortions and it would be a mess, it would be a very huge problem. I realize everyone wants to believe the best for people but being optimistic and thinking everyone wants to have a child is being very naive.

If they deserve the same rights and securities as a heterosexual couple they deserve marriage. Seeing as thats both a right and a sense of security in the relationship.

It's not like we went into Mexico and said "Hey guys! Come to America and help our economy!" They just illegally crossed the border yeah for very understandable reasons and got jobs. Now theres a lot of them working, millions if you were to tell them all to go back we'd start having a lot of problems.

A meager US wave is much higher than a meager Mexican wage you realize that right? It's not like they're getting an extra dollar a year over here, that wouldn't be worth it. They're making much more over here.

So what do you want us to do? Send them all the millions back and then face the even more serious problems we would be facing? Like what to do with all the jobs Americans won't do but need to be done?

I'm sorry but are you serious? I wouldn't even want to serve in the armed forces for a year let alone four and I would hardly expect anyone else to want to serve in the armed forces especially for this war that is fucked up in too many ways to get into. Also in many ways you're sending them off to their death. I don't think I need to get into the issue of racism in the army (remember all those lovely photos in certain jails a few years ago?) They wouldn't be treated fairly in the army and that war is disgusting and should never have happened. These people just want to support themselves and their family, they don't want to die for a country they may never receive citizenship for because they didn't live long enough.

Argh did you decide to completely ignore nearly everything I typed? Mexico DID have a thriving economy at one time. Mexico had vast oil reserves that made them a country in strong competitions with others in the oil market but as I said America started its little lending campaign and held the oil as collateral putting Mexico in somewhat of a fix. We expected them to pay off loans while taking there main source of income, which isn't a surprise we've always put oil first.

Mexico's government is partly to blame for there problems but you aren't listening America can't just sit here and say "It's Mexico's problem" when it was also very much the fault of America. I'm sure if the Mexican government had the ability to just magically eliminate poverty in their country they would in a second but the fact is they don't. They aren't able to offer low interest loans or create good industry wages for people at factories, it's not like they're in the situation for kicks.

I don't think you really understand the problem with malquiladoras. These are factories set up by AMERICAN BASED COMPANIES IN MEXCIO FOR LOW WAGE LABOR. That's the key thing, people are working in conditions very similar to some asian factories. The Mexican government doesn't have the ability to say no to these factories because they're owned by major American companies like walmart and if they were to say something they run the risk of finacial and diplomatic seclusion from the US in a time when aid is very much needed but we won't give it because we have no interest in serving anyone else but ourselves. More people need to realize just how much of a pile of crap these "War on Terrorisms" and "Getting Rid of Sadams" missions are. If we really had interest in helping countries we would be in Darfur right now and we would also have been in Mexico along time ago.

How do slaughter houses benefit society? By pumping up obesity and blood pressures and creating some of the most disgusting industries ever? Anyway there's a difference between animals and unborn and unthinking fetuses. I think Animal abuse and the meat industry is more akin to child abuse than abortion anyway and if we're going to continue to argue abortion we shouldn't sit here with our apples and oranges when the oranges aren't necessary.

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adidasss

I'd hate to further the off topic but I feel compelled to interject here and ask if you wouldn't mind clarifying what marriage is to you? I'm only assuming that it's not just about a life long commitment, but also about procreation. If I'm right, does that mean couples that can't have kids (or don't want any) shouldn't be allowed to call their union marriage either?

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“Think of what a paradise this world would be if men were kind and wise.” - Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle.

Last.fm

Rainard Jalen

Marriage in modern terms is simply a way of expressing a higher degree on the commitment scale than a simple long-term relationship.

Miltamec Soundsquinaez

My opinion on the abortion matter is very departed from the norm, but as a smart man once said, "when everyone thinks alike; no one thinks."

The only solution to the moral dilemma in this country known as abortion is to stop people from procreating. I don't know if we have to tie every guys tubes, or remove women's ovaries, but the fact is that there are too many unintelligent people having babies, and that actuall leads to many of societies problems - murder, drugs, you name it. How could you say any crime committed was not in some way linked to a lack of intelligence. I believe people who are interested in reproducing should be required by law to take an I.Q. test. The minimum score would be 100, and in some cases a person could have a slightly lower I.Q., but generally have good character and the ability to refrain from anger, which would make a good parent.

I am like a slightly liberal moderate, but one issue I just don't agree with liberals on is being pro-abortion, because no one can, or has ever been able to prove that a baby inside the womb doesn't having feelings or thoughts, and therefore cannot be considered a living human person.

As I see it, there is only one solution, and that is for so many unsmart people to stop having babies, and they can have all the sex, and I'm sure they will. Also rape cases are a tricky one; I guess I don't understand why women don't take a morning after pill any time they are raped. (grant it, they might not have their thoughts together, but I wish it would cross their mind)

jackhammer

You cannot take away a persons moral right to create life. Simple as that. You can encourage safe sex and educate people but you cannot take the right away.

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sleepy jack

Intelligence isn't directly connected to murder and drugs. I know plenty of smart people who do drugs and there's plenty of smart murders. Most serial killers while messed up have to be pretty intelligent to get away with a series of murders. Your logic is, well illogical. Also not letting people have children because of their IQ is ridiculous and unfair Adolf. IQ tests are flawed anyway and you'd have to know for sure what the smart gene is and isn't and we can't know so it wouldn't be accurate. The proof of genetic hereditation is scant and weak, do some research.

That logic can go both ways you realize that right?

You can't get the morning after pill until you're 18 and I don't know remember right but I don't think it's a guaranteed to work thing so once again, bad logic based on shaky ground. Maybe before saying things like this you should really research to make sure you know what you're talking about.

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Miltamec Soundsquinaez

Yes I know I cannot;

There is no law in place forbidding people from procreating due to a lack of intelligence

Also, you cannot take away a mother-to-be's right to abort due to Roe V. Wade.

I was merely offering up an alternative solution to a problem that we both know exists. You believe abortion is wrong. I believe abortion was wrong and am interjecting on a societal point about how I feel there are way too many unintelligent people in our society, and due to many people's quickness to anger; they are incapable of raising kids who have the courage to think for themselves:
on that point, let me elaborate:
When parents have a quickness to anger, and beat their kids, they are setting them up forever to have low self-esteem, and also a belief that all authorities are out to get them. This latter belief also leads them to be forever the victim in this world of governmental lies, and corruption.
Now, don't get me wrong there are plenty of governmental lies and corruption, but when people begin to look for lies and corruption to validate their world view, then there starts to be a problem.
So, we have unintelligent people breeding and creating unintelligent children who lack the courage to think for themselves, due to low self-esteem, from being abused (in many cases), and desperately want the government or the church to tell them what to do, and how to live their life, and yet love complaining about that same system at the first sign of corruption or problems.
I don't know about you pal, but I just don't like the thought of living in a world full of victims.