mr dave

my bad but you obviously got what i was saying. again though, how do you define the 'correct' answer?

why can't everything be nothing? how do you define existence?

i think the idea that one side has to be wrong so the other is right is one of the major failings of humans.

the easiest analogy i can think of is war. every single person who willingly fought in any war has always been on the same side - the one they believed was right. yet one side always goes down in the history books as having been 'wrong'. were they really wrong or is it just the easiest way of justifying the actions of the victor and their violently enforced view of what is 'right' into the collective psyche of the species?

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Dr_Rez

@Skinny: You have the wrong idea. Religion for 99% of people is not about needing proof, or believing in something that is defiantly proven and true. It is about having a set of morals and code of ethics to follow.

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Molecules

Those archaic belief systems should have no place in the modern world, IMO. Just look at Israel and Palestine. It's regressive. Medieval even.
People used to be tortured and burned alive as a result of differing interpretations of the Bible; but that was back when you just didn't question the order of the Church, the Pope possessed more power than many world leaders do today.

I think it's all well and good to have a faith and belief system if it gets you through the day; but it's when I see the bonafide fanatics trying to force their beliefs on others that I start to get worried.
Christianity may have once had alot to offer (Milton's 'Paradise Lost' being one); but in this day and age people really should know better than to adopt it literally, word-for-word.

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Alfred

Either I've been listening to too much NOFX and Bad Religion, or that opinion is not unpopular.

And RezZ is right. That's how I look at religion. For me, the Bible just makes sense... I really have no reasons to not be religious. No amount of scientific theories or evidence (unless it's like, super-hardcore) can change that.

I don't think I'm a close-minded person though, like a lot of people percieve us to be.

Molecules

Again I'm sure there are proper terms for all this but, short of being omnipresent, aren't the properties of existence defined by us humans? I see where you're going - how is blind faith in God any less valid than my firm belief that a rock exists because I can see it and touch it? Hmm. It's like the old 'what if all life is just somebody else's dream'? Conundrum...

Surely our conscious is all we have - whether we choose to only believe in the laws of physics or some sadomasochist Mover?

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mr dave

it's all a big paradox until you accept that you are the big paradox hehe

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Inuzuka Skysword

Blind faith is a choice that I made after deciding it was my way to get out of the systems that this world forces upon us. The point is that if you are a true skeptic (as in the way the Greeks started it) then believing in a God should be no less the same as believing that this forum has the color black on the template. I am a true skeptic in this matter and I find logical to be quite illogical (simply because you can't prove, using logic, why logic is the best method for me to deduce things.) Therefore, I accept the blind faith Christianity needs and now I find my self in a better stance. It is all personal choice, and no one can tell me why I shouldn't believe it because you are just going to bring faulty logic into the argument.

As for Christianity causing problems, you are wrong. Christians cause the problems, not Christianity. No Christian lives by the word fully because it is next to impossible so you end up having people who tell you you will go to hell and **** like that. I am a much more post-modernist when it comes to Christianity in that I believe it is up to the interpretation of the individual.

My interpretation is that Christianity is having a relationship with God, which exceeds everything else. Then others come before yourself, to the point where your life goal is to better others (these were principals Jesus practiced.) I am not a full pacifist, because I believe to harm in order to save another person is biblical, but I am against all other uses of violence. I believe violence to save yourself is wrong because it is the sacrifice of oneself for another. My Christianity is based off of Jesus's life, which (I believe) taught, the rejection of formalism, self-sacrifice, maximized faith (because no one can truly achieve 100% faith,) and the spreading of the gospel by showing others love (not showing a bible to a starving child if you know what I mean.) I have some major problems with the church these days, like the fact that I don't think tithing goes to the actual church building, but to people in need, and the fact that there shouldn't even be a church building because it costs money, which supports a system that we shouldn't be supporting.

This system is the idea that even the circulation of money is the cause of crime in the world. The reality is that a lot of the money you have touched in your lifetime is probably "dirty money." I believe that no Christian should strive to be rich because Jesus was poor as **** and depended on his faith to get him through. As you can see, I see no problem with self-expression, even if it could make someone feel bad. I believe that the person who interprets that comment makes it worse for themself, and it is not so much the person expressing that is causing the problem. I believe that Christian's should try to only strive for basic needs in life. While humans naturally need entertainment and other things of the sort, I believe the minimal amount is best.

It is a lot different than most Christian backgrounds, but that is my interpretation in a nutshell. A lot of other stuff though.

Molecules

I agree with you to a point, I was trying to imply that in my own inept way . I realize not all Christians live by the book so exactly, I was referring to the Neanderthal element. And they exist cuz I dun seen em on teevee.

So do you incorporate the creation myth into your beliefs aswell Inuzuka? Since the tenets of Christianity and the characteristics of God are derived from the Bible surely one would have to accept it as true in order to be faithful? I mean to have a foundation for that faith?
This has been on my mind. Because even if I were willing to join a club to solidify my moral conscience and give me a raison d'etre (no offense intended, that's just how I see it) I could never get past the fact that God spans time... The point being that 'He' allegedly foresaw the fall of Lucifer and half of heaven; that Man (sorry, woman, those silly things) would eat from the tree of Knowledge; civilization would be thrown into chaos again and again, etc.
Something like God's sick little project. He's meant to be Perfect, right? I never understood why he couldn't be content to dwell in utter perfection, he had to create toys to bask in his light and appreciate every minute of it.

I'm not taking all Christians for fools, incidentally, just trying to clarify.

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Skinny.

I didn't say it caused problems, I said it limits our potential as a species. As far as that goes, it's christianity not the christians limiting our potential. How much can we accomplish if we live a lie?

Although, Islam is far worse than christianity. A majority rate of british teen belonging to the muslim faith said anyone who leaves the faith deserves death. All those people thinking like this are slowing us down and even setting us back.

Inuzuka Skysword

Prove to me that atheism is truth.

I am pretty sure no one said that yet.