The Unfan

Believing rocks are real is valid because they are observable, quantifiable, and falsifiable.

As far as the statement "God is real" being just a belief, I agree. However, it is also a statement of existence. "I believe God is real" would mean someone is stating just their beliefs but "God is real" is a statement of God's existence. God being real or not has to be objective since God isn't an abstract. It is a falsifiable statement. We don't have the work to prove he is either real or non-existent, however he can't be both.

mr dave

but at this point you're arguing semantics.

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i am the universe

Molecules

I agree with you to a point, I was trying to imply that in my own inept way . I realize not all Christians live by the book so exactly, I was referring to the Neanderthal element. And they exist cuz I dun seen em on teevee.

So do you incorporate the creation myth into your beliefs aswell Inuzuka? Since the tenets of Christianity and the characteristics of God are derived from the Bible surely one would have to accept it as true in order to be faithful? I mean to have a foundation for that faith?
This has been on my mind. Because even if I were willing to join a club to solidify my moral conscience and give me a raison d'etre (no offense intended, that's just how I see it) I could never get past the fact that God spans time... The point being that 'He' allegedly foresaw the fall of Lucifer and half of heaven; that Man (sorry, woman, those silly things) would eat from the tree of Knowledge; civilization would be thrown into chaos again and again, etc.
Something like God's sick little project. He's meant to be Perfect, right? I never understood why he couldn't be content to dwell in utter perfection, he had to create toys to bask in his light and appreciate every minute of it.

I'm not taking all Christians for fools, incidentally, just trying to clarify.

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[SIZE="1"]Eff em
tumble her

Inuzuka Skysword

Well technically, one can say God does not logically exist, but one cannot say he logically doesn't exist. I do agree with your statement, but I do give respect to atheists because they are at least picking the logical choice that follows their own philosophy. My problem are the Christians who try to prove God is logical. Total bull.

The problem isn't necessarily them being so fundamental as it is there interpretation and where it stems from. Now I may be a bit general in this statement, but most of the trouble causing Christians believe what they believe because of their background and the fact that they believe everything that daddy or the preacher tells them. Most of them spend so much time looking at the Bible one way that they never see anyone else's point of view. These are the fundamentalists. The only respect I have for them is that a lot of them have the balls to go against modern society.

No, I do not incorporate even the beginning of the earth in a biblical sense. While I believe there is a small chance that it could be possible, I don't see how it benefits my Christianity or others by deciding how the universe was formed. That passage can be interpreted many ways, so I don't even bother. That and Revelation, I don't read much because they don't really tell me much about living a Christian life or and lessons I might learn. I don't waste my time trying to find out random facts that could help prove God's existence. I simply try to interpret his word so that I might better live my life for him and others.

That is an argument a lot of people struggle with, and it is a valid one. I used to not understand so much why God would even want to exist because he knew everything. What is the point of existence if you are never to experience anything new? The bottom line is that when I look at it this way I am bringing earthly thoughts and feelings into an argument that has no rules of the such. The bottom line is that it is beyond my understanding why God does what he does. The one thing I do understand, I believe, is why he created us. I believe he created us in order to show love, and in order for us to show love to him. Now why some people will not be shown that love, I really don't know, but I am all for that love and like to express it to God and other people.

One thing that has helped me along with this argument is, what is true love? I mean, if everyone could gain salvation then would it be love or would it just be like a forced charity. It is kind of like this. If we loved everyone, then how would one define love? It would really be almost impossible, and only a god of some sort could really do it because as a human it is beyond our understanding. Must they experience some of the opposite in order to experience love? That would mean that if God did not have the opposite we would never be able to understand true love.

The problem with this though, is that I experience it under human terms and am, once again, enslaved by a system where I must follow certain rules. At the end of this pondering you wonder, "Well, couldn't a perfect god make all of this happen because he is perfect?" I mean, I am stumped again.

So, after all of this thinking and depressing knowledge you can go a couple ways:

- You can turn to pleasures such as money, fame, sex, revenge, etc.
- You can forget about it by taking things such as drugs or use your mind by rejecting any thinking.
- You can turn to a religion, which I believe breaks the system.
- You can be a Nihilist, or another of the sort.
- You can commit suicide.

I picked religion.

Alfred

You can never prove the existance of God. Anyone who thinks you can prove that is an idiot.

mr dave

but you could say the complete opposite of that and still be accurate.

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i am the universe

Alfred

The complete opposite = ?

You can prove that God doesn't exist?

The Unfan

Depends. Are we defining God as "a grand arbitrator" or strictly the biblical God? If the former your statement is accurate for now, if the latter than all evidence points to him not existing, including the bible.

Skinny.

I didn't say it caused problems, I said it limits our potential as a species. As far as that goes, it's christianity not the christians limiting our potential. How much can we accomplish if we live a lie?

Although, Islam is far worse than christianity. A majority rate of british teen belonging to the muslim faith said anyone who leaves the faith deserves death. All those people thinking like this are slowing us down and even setting us back.

Inuzuka Skysword

Prove to me that atheism is truth.

I am pretty sure no one said that yet.