I dont expect any comments of this nature. I actually thought your post was one of the more honest, insightful in this thread so far. As someone perfectly happy with their gender, with absolutely no desire to be any other way, i thought it was interesting to read such an honest account of some of the ways in which others can feel somewhat uncomfortable.

You know, i agree completely that women get judged far more for sleeping around than men do. im not claiming this is right but its a fact as far as im concerned. Im happy to admit that promiscuity is a turn off for me. It's a big turn off. Its the biggest turn off and if i think about it and ask myself whether i would judge women for this more than men then maybe if im honest, i would realise that i do judge women a little more?

Im not entirely sure that this is the case because i dont exactly have a very high opinion of the guys i have known or know or have met in the past who go from bar to bar trying to tap up every single girl they see so they can take her home and brag about her to their friends the next day but also, im not attracted to men. I dont want to be friends with guys like this but i damn sure dont want to sleep with them either, so in that sense it isnt a turn off. Their sex lives are none of my business and so why do i care?

I am however attracted to women, i do want to sleep with women and i dont want to sleep with a woman who is the female equivalent of the type of guy i just mentioned, who is the kind of girl that actually sleeps with these kind of pricks and so that WOULD be a turn off. Would it not be natural if i were to judge her a little more?

I have to agree with you here. They say its about feeling comfortable in your own skin and they didnt feel right being a man/woman so sex change was the only solution.

I just dont understand it. Maybe because I've never felt the need to get a penis to feel like myself, but I believe to be yourself you just need a bit of self-respect, and I dont see how having a sex change can do that for you. If you want to have a sex change, whatever floats your boat, go for it, but its not something I fully agree with.

You'd get those comments on other forums like DDD (which is sexist as holy f*ck) sure but I don't think MB is like that.

Yes we can all agree that when else fails, blame the douchebag males. A lot of men seem to really get off on the concept of penis envy and that women really want to be them, another bigoted worldview that needs to be challenged in the same way the old worldview that it's better to be white than to be black needed to be challenged.

I don't get the huge sexual appeal of virgins, I presume it's because the first time is always the most intense and giving women the most sexual satisfication is itself very satisfying. Or maybe it's just the concept of getting to be the "deflowerer". But I'd much rather have a girl with experience if I do say so myself.

The thing is, if a woman is sexually promiscious but at the same time not anyone's bitch, as in she's in total control of her sexual life. Then she is not a slut. If she is then it's only common logic that any promiscious male would himself be a slut.

A slut isn't a sexually promiscious woman, it's a woman (or man) with serious esteem issues who is willing to degrade herself in persuing some insignificant goal. A woman who sticks around an abusive boyfriend cuz she's desperate for a relationship and feels like she doesn't deverse better is by my definition a slut. Or a prostitute.

But to say all promiscious women have self esteem issues is wrong and insulting and yeah it's a huge double standard.

I have never been one of those guys and so I can't deny feeling some degree of sexist resentment that so many women inexplicably find that kind of behavior attractive. If anyone has a valid reason to turn queer it would be me but goddammit I'm holding on to my heterosexuality. Because as confusingly complicated as women are, it's worth it in comparison to men. I don't find men sexually attractive (though maybe I experimented with the concept when I was younger) nor can I relate with the great majority of them in any way.

How so many of them tend to view women is a part of it but there is a whole bunch of reasons. There is no worse kind of person than an alpha male.

This could be considered a double standard but I am attracted to some women who are like that. When guys do it it's like they treat it as a game of hunting, "HOLY SH*T GUYS LOOK WHAT I CAUGHT"

But with women, the dominatrix and cougar types, it's a refreshing role reversal. It shows that women can be the one in control in the bedroom.

Women have a great f*cking power over men, every guy knows it, unfortunately not every woman does, we try to make women feel like inferior sh*t so they don't get too comfortable with the idea that they can be in control if they want to be.

I will retract that statement somewhat though as in what Adidasss said is a very valid point, there are people with a gender "mismatch" disorder. These are people who feel like god made a mistake.

If you are a religious person I understand that you may find that insulting and that people should be proud of what they have been given. This is a belief that I share even as someone who is not religious.

For me, if I had this disorder I don't think the sacrifice is worth it, to quote South Park a man can never truly become a woman, he can only become a man with a mutilated penis and if I'm gonna be stuck on this planet as a dude I'd rather be stuck as a dude with a fully functional wang. I might need it someday. :D

Well boo boo, of course it is a double standard to dislike that in men but be attractred to the same behaviour in women. However me judging women for this more than men is a double standard too, theres no doubt. I try not to judge women for it more but when im honest with myself, i think i do. I cant help but feel that for me, its natural to feel this way though simply because of my sexual orientation and that promiscuity is such a big turn off.

Im sure alot of women would say the same, wouldnt they? Maybe im wrong but i would think if a straight woman was also turned off by the promisius types then because of their interest in men sexually, the guys that behave this way would be of interest to her more than the women, wouldnt they? Because ultimately, they arent attracted to or interested in finding a woman so why care how they live their lives?

I think maybe a point is that if a women was not attracted to a man because of his sexual promiscuity it would be seen as weird or an unacceptable reason to avoid a guy, but if a man was put off by a woman's promiscuity it would be seen as acceptable.

Do you really think thats true? I would find it perfectly acceptible if a woman chose not to have anything to do with a guy because he was a bit of a slut.

People are inherently hypocritical, I came to terms with that a good while back.

What I meant to say though is that promiscious men (at least those who hypocritically have issues with promiscious women) seem to subscribe to the idea that they are born with this special abillity women don't have. As in they are abusing this power they feel they were born with, and they love flaunting it. "Hey ladies I can have all the ass I want but you better stay loyal or I'll f*ck you up bitch YEEEEEEEEEEEAHHHHHHHHHHHH BOOOOOOOOOOOOIIIIIIIIII".

With promiscious women, the non-crackwhore type that is, it's more like they're trying to obtain a kind of power and lifestyle that they feel they deserve to have just as much as men do. It's certainly not as culturally acceptable but I certainly admire women who break from the stereotype of how women should behave more than I admire men who simply conform to the stereotype of what it is to be a man.

Most of the blokes I've ever met who are like that are self-absorbed bores who just never shut up about their exploits, so I think it'd be perfectly acceptable myself.

I used to hang around with a bunch of lads who were like that. The kind of lads who, when they find out about you sleeping with some girl they all know, they try to give you a high five.

Im sorry but im not into that. My life is my life and i intend to keep it that way.

It's the same sort of logic which homophobes use. I don't understand therefore I don't agree with it. It's not your body or your life so there's nothing to agree or disagree with.

I find that to be a pretty arrogant statement at least going as far as to call her a homophobe. That is retarded.

I really don't get the deal with homosexuality, I don't understand it AT ALL but I don't get why everyone gets so worked up about it either, as long as it's doing no harm to you or anyone around you what's the issue?

But with sex changes that's different, severing your genitalia is something I consider crazy no matter what the reason is, one could oppose it for the same reason people oppose plastic surgery and thus for reasons other than sexual orientation.

Ross. :laughing:

Actually, I didn't call her a homophobe, just compared that line of thinking with one commonly present with homophobes.

Changing your body is a drastic thing to do, but it only goes to show how much these people are suffering. Same goes for plastic surgery, if it helps you feel better about yourself, why would anyone have a problem with it? Really, I don't understand. Again, this is not your body, it does not concern you, so why would you disagree with it?

I voted 'not sure' because I'm really of the 'don't know, don't care' mindset. I'm a dude, and I'm always going to be a dude. There are loads of qualities I like about being male, and qualities I envy in females, but at the end of the day, there's really nothing I can do to change that. I feel gender is something you're either content with to begin with, or have to adapt to.

Yeah well comparing someone to a homophobe just because they can't understand a certain lifestyle is jumping to ridiculous conclusions.

I mean, I don't understand neo nazi culture and if that puts my line of logic on terms with a homophobe then so be it.

Not comparing trannies to nazis but I think you understand that what I'm trying to say is hating something and simply not understanding the appeal of something shouldn't be equated with each other. Glass finds it morally wrong and I can really understand why she feels that way but that doesn't mean she feels transexuals should be denied any rights.

Like I said some people do oppose plastic surgery for various reasons.

Me? I think people have a right to do whatever they want with their bodies if it makes them feel better. But I do think people nowadays have a habit of jumping to making drastic changes based on emotional impulses and I just hope they don't regret these choices in the future.

I just don't know why it's so hard to accept why a guy would have trouble with the idea of other guys cutting their wangs off. :laughing:

I mean by doing it you're denying yourself the abillity to feel sexual pleasure ever again. Surely one day we'll have technology where doctors can actually replace your junk with a fully functional vagina complete with a synthetic nervous system and that will be a great day for trannies indeed but in the meantime there's no way to make a "true" transgender transition and I just don't think cutting your organs off is worth the effort because all that will be left is a stump where they used to be. What's the point?

The only good reasons I can think of are aesthetics and to cut off the testosterone supply. But still our technology is too limited and you can only make it half way there so why bother? Maybe if you're asexual and it won't be much of a loss to you, but the good majority of transgender people live "sexual" lifestyles. At this point in time man cannot truly become female so why not settle with having the one sexual organ you were born with instead of giving it up without getting anything back in return?

EDIT: Never mind, I've done some research and learned what a vaginoplasty is. Goddamn I have a hard time keeping up with technological breakthroughs.

I definitely agree that one improvement society needs is for workplaces and childcare to be arranged so that having a baby is easier. Your job should stay secure, and you shouldn't get penalized for taking time off (when promotions are considered). It's a lot better now than it was, but not good enough. Ideally, for example, childcare centers would be close to workplaces so that women can visit to breastfeed a child during breaks but still go to work. That's awful that you lost your job simply because of being pregnant! Firing someone for having a baby sounds illegal, too.

I agree with you that bleeding every month is a pain, literally...and I'm lucky that it doesn't hurt much for me...but I still like the emotional changes. Plus, giving birth did hurt (during contractions, but then there were painfree pauses), though actually by the time I was pushing, I was used to the pain and it didn't bother me much. I just wanted to get my baby out because I was worried about him. And the soreness afterwards! It lasted weeks! No one had told me about that. Sitting down hurt. But for me childbirth wasn't the worst pain I've experienced in life...and it was a very memorable experience, something out of the ordinary, something new. Of course, I didn't have "back labor"...which is supposed to be excruciating!

The pill...I never considered using the pill because I didn't want to mess with my hormones and cause all the bad side effects you mention.

Condoms...if some man said he wouldn't be willing to wear a condom, I'd say the possible pleasure doesn't outweigh the risks. To even things up, I'd use foam, so that we're both doing *something* to protect ourselves from pregnancy and infections. I actually never met anyone who wasn't prepared to wear a condom...all the men had them...it was never even a question. I remember being quite charmed when a significant other not only had a condom, but also contraceptive foam for me to use. I thought that was very thoughtful and sexy. It is nice when someone makes you feel safe and protected and loved, all at the same time. Sigh! :)

My point is that being your own advocate and not letting society's norms crush you, regardless of your gender, is really important.

I feel it is an extreme turnoff if a man sleeps around, because it means to me that sex is meaningless to him. It's difficult for me to imagine women (or men) wanting to have sex with someone who really doesn't care if it is you or someone else they're with.

Why not just stick to oral and anal?

That's saving yourself a lot of trouble. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y28...s/badteeth.gif

Ok those things also have their risks. As does every sexual act I reckon. But I'd rather have some nasty mouth sores than carry an 8 pound parasite inside me for 9 months and then squeeze it out of my genitals.

^ Not every woman doesnt want to get pregnant!

We're talking about two different things here. Not understanding (although I don't see the difficulty in understanding that other people might not think and feel as you do) and finding something morally wrong are two different things. Besides, when you say you don't understand homosexuality, I'll assume you mean you have no inclination towards same-sex attraction yourself, because I don't see what's difficult to understand about two people being attracted to each other. I've never been mystified by heterosexuality. It's there, it exists, I don't share the same feelings but I have no problem accepting their existence as a fact.

And there's a thin line between finding something morally wrong and denying someone their rights. Again, I'll use a parallel with homosexuality, the majority of people who find homosexuality morally reprehensible also feel they should limit the rights of homosexuals. If you get enough people who find a certain behavior or characteristic wrong, you'll end up with them wanting to take action. And all because some people seem unable to understand the simplest of things, that what is right for you may not apply to someone else. And, since you've drawn the nazi parallel, the deciding factor here should be whether or not it's hurting anyone. Which clearly transitioning from one gender to another is not, on the contrary.


I think it's unfortunate that the technology in this area is not advanced enough to make a full transition (including ovaries and what not), but I'd gather most transsexuals are willing to cope with the shortcomings. Syncing their minds with their bodies, at least to a certain degree, seems to be more important than feeling sexual pleasure (although as I gather M2F transgenders can still feel sexual pleasure seeing as how the procedure basically inverts the penis and preserves the nerve endings).

Yeah lots of women love children, I guess we all forgot about that.

I personally think pregnancy is a beautiful thing despite all the hardships that come with it. A woman's uterus is like a garden where people grow. Ok that's corny as all f*ck but it's not far from the truth.

Some girls just wanna f*ck though and they have a more severe penalty for sexual activity than guys.

I can only think of these methods in avoiding pregnancy if you live a sexual lifestyle. In order of sanest to craziest.

-Avoid straight up vaginal intercourse, using various other sexual techniques as substitutes

-Make partner use condom

-Hot lesbian sex :pimp:

-Take contraceptive

-Make partner have vasectomy

-Get your tubes tied

-Intentionally seek out infertile males for intercourse :laughing:

-First trimester abortion

-Female to male sex reassignment surgery, not the best option if you intend to have intercourse with your male partner :laughing:

-Hysterectomy, by far the most radical and dangerous choice. You could make some quick money by selling pictures of it to death metal bands so they can use it for their album cover

I take this topic too seriously? hahahaha


yes and no. you mention an easy example in your comment as well, men have more upper body strength. it's not something i ever tried to have more of than my little sister, i just did because of the chemical composition of my body. choice? not applicable. but you still see plenty of people who try to deny the fact that it's about the biological specialization of the gender through either the guise of equality or the disdain of chauvinism. you must remember the classic line from our youths (whatever boys can do, girls can do better!). basically the message i've gotten from society since the late 70s is pretty much - hey guy, you have it all and don't actually deserve any of it and you're the reason your mom is sad.

just to be clear i'm NOT a 'get in the kitchen and make me a sandwich woman' kind of guy either.

and yes, hermaphrodites happen but they're quite rare. though it's still technically wrong to call them asexual as they can't reproduce by themselves.

You're the one who was bitching because people weren't getting in depth enough. But if you read some of the past pages you'd see that your complaints have been met so STFU.

I disagree with the point that sex changes are stupid. There genuinely are people who do not feel they're the right gender, and that doesn't really make them stupid at all. I have a good friend whom I met as Amanda, who is now referred to as Adam and while he's pre-op I don't think it's stupid for him to want to be a full male. Everyone had always thought, when he was playing the part of a she, that she was a male anyway,so it's easier for him now. I'm really happy for him now, because he's becoming who he feels he really is, and he's very brave for coming out to his family about it.

Personally I think people like this are absolutely fascinating, being that I'm so at home in this female body with my decidedly female mind (I'm so girly that I wear nothing but dresses), I can't really understand feeling otherwise, so it's interesting to hear from someone who isn't.

I think I'm pretty happy with being a guy.
As someone said, I think we get kind of a bad run around because for some unknown reason it's "Cool to be stupid" these days and I think a lot of girls, guys like me, and older generations get irritated and tend to right a lot of us off.
However, I think girls have a lot harder than guys do what with their image and just having to deal with other girls in general because, really, they can be pretty cruel. We guys just beat the **** out of each other. Girls take it to a whole new level.
I think over all we're not expected to be super achievers so when we do well it's acknowledged well, whereas girls get pushed a lot harder because they're supposed to eb "smarter, prettier, faster," etc.
I just think it's easier to be a guy than it would be to be a girl.

But even as someone who has on occassion had thoughts about being the opposite sex I can't fully grasp how anyone could go through with it.

I'm not at all saying though that people who feel like one gender trapped in another are stupid. I recognise Gender Identity Disorder as a legitimate biological disorder. I guess it's because I don't have this disorder that I can't grasp how desperately those with the disorder feel the need for transgender surgery.

I apologise for putting it so bluntly earlier. What I really meant is I think it would be stupid for me to have transgender surgery just because I think being a chick would be groovy because if I ever go through with it and I'm not satisfied, there is no penis return policy.

As in sex change is something I'd only recommend for people who truly suffer from the disorder. I'm just not sure that every transexual does. I see the possibility that some sex changes are a result of an emotional reaction to something that could be sorely regretted in the future.

I'm cool with being a guy. Although ruling the world would be nice.

Women don't rule the world. But they CAN and all they gotta do is show me their tits. :thumb:

But seriously. Woman can rule the relationship sure, and that is mostly the case according to any male comedian anyway. But that's not equal to running the world. The folks all around the world who run the governments, agencies, organizations, economies, media outlets, militaries, religions and most other institutions are predominately male by a significant amount.

Menstruation is definitely what I dislike most about being female. I'm glad it doesn't hurt too much for you, Erica. The pain is pretty severe for me. In fact, I tolerated labor pain very well because I was so accustomed to similar severe cramping pain during periods. That's what labor felt like to me: like really bad period pain. It wasn't the worst thing in the world. I didn't give birth vaginally, though -- have always wondered what that would've felt like (and kind of glad I didn't have to find out!). I had C-sections with both my children. The pain and soreness afterwards was really unpleasant for many weeks (same as you, Erica - but I guess in a different area!). That was the most difficult part to get through.

I'm happy with being male as I find girls tend to go through a lot more pain as they tend to be more emotionally unstable and then there's childbirth, periods, menstruation (sp?), stereotypes etc.

You know if this so true why is the great majority of criminals, sexual offenders and psychopathic killers male?

Nothing against men, but I absolutely agree with you, boo hoo. I certainly do not agree that women are "more emotionally unstable" than men.

I think neither women nor men have the monopoly on emotional instability in this world.

It's boo boo not boo hoo. :laughing:

I hope that doesn't become a new nickname.

Sorry about that! I made a boo boo! :laughing:

I'd have to agree with you too, BooBoo.
I'm probably the most emotionally unstable person I know. Thankfully, I think I'm too much of a push over to actually turn into a murderer.

I dunno. I believe there are several studies that point to women being able to cope with stress better than men. Even without studies that one is kinda obvious, I believe if any man were to have a baby just once it would drive him to the brink of madness but millions of women are somehow willing to do this OVER AND OVER.

And correct me if I'm wrong but I think women are also superior at learning and thinking quickly and word processing.

I do know for a fact that in many regions of the world girls tend to get better grades than boys. It might be because they have less distractions? But ironically the amount of boys who get academic degrees is significantly higher than girls who get them.

Rather than it being because men are smarter than women it's because women rarely persue academic disciplines and instead choose basic jobs or the stay at home mom lifestyle.

More proof that women could rule the world if they wanted to.

Wait a minute, since when did hemaphrodites not have sexual drives of any kind? I didn't know that.

Lady Gaga seems pretty horny to me.

As far as studies go, I have read that women's brains produce much larger amounts of oxytocin (a sort of "soothing" hormone calming to the emotions) than men's brains do in stressful situations. This and women's proficiency at multi-tasking :) make women more efficient managers of stress.

There is a new term for this condition now. It is called the "Chase Bono" condition. ;)

How do you know that? Maybe they need to produce more hormone because they get stressed more easily compared to men and need to compensate :p:

I'm very much a guy, like I feel my guyish nature (whatever that entails is up for debate perhaps, but ..) is something that defines me as a person to the very core of my being and I'm very happy with my gender. I have a lot of girl friends, but they are way way harder to relate to in a day to day life than my guy friends concerning for example stuff like just ordinairy feelings (or lack of them) about stuff.

edit :

I don't think the fact that men murder more often means that they are necessarily more emotionally "unstable". I believe they are more often the sort of people who murder ;) That's an important distinction, I think. For reasons stemming from the general physical differences between the sexes, put roughly - men have a higher capacity for violence and this again stems from our evolutionary history.