VEGANGELICA

Nicotine interacts with nitrous oxide, a common indoor air pollutant resulting from the burning of natural gas, to produce a strong carcinogen. So the presence of nicotine in the hair, etc., of babies due to parents smoking *outside* the house indicates a potential for the presence of carcinogens:

My guess is that testing for nicotine may be simpler than testing for other compounds in cigarette smoke. While it can't be assumed that the presence of nicotine means other nasty substances from cigarette smoke are present, it suggests the possibility that they are.

The study I cited in the previous post has an advantage over some studies in that it actually shows babies of parents who smoke outside the house are getting exposed to residue (nicotine) from cigarette smoke in measurable levels. So, parents should not assume they are fully protecting their children by smoking outside, because they aren't.

I agree with you that the study has some flaws, partly because the studies of third-hand smoke are very new. It looks like researchers still need to measure the long-term effects of third-hand smoke on children. I agree that measuring the levels of smoke carcinogens directly (50 of the chemicals in cigarette smoke are known to be carcinogens) would be preferable to just measuring nicotine levels in and on babies.

However, probably some parents would not want to expose their babies to an addictive substance, nicotine, regardless of whether or not their doing so also exposes children to strong carcinogens. And I see no reason to think that only the nicotine sticks to the fingers, hair, skin and clothes of parents who smoke outside.

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FETCHER.

If third hand smoke even exists then nobody can escape it at all, and we're all going to die of lung cancer induced by people smoking outside. What a load of balls, to be frank. Scientists need to waste time on something valuable.

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My Journal.
Last.Fm if your interested...

Freebase Dali

AMEN.

Since the idea that trace amounts of 3rd-hand smoke is affecting people negatively is nowhere near ultimately proven, and even if it were, I would encourage these supporters of agenda-terror to focus on other things and realize that the battle is on such a small scale that it's inconsequential in the face of all the other dangers out there... Here are some, not including being raped and killed in an alley downtown:

- Tannins occur widely in plant foods and we ingest them daily in tea, coffee, and cocoa. Tannic acid has caused liver tumors in experimental animals, and may be linked to esophageal cancer in humans.

- Safrole, which is a liver carcinogen in rats, is found in sassafras tea, cinnamin, cocoa (trace), nutmeg, and other herbs and spices.

- Black pepper was found to be carcinogenic to experimental mice. Pyperadine and alpha-Methylpyrroline are secondary amines in black pepper which can be nitrosated to N-nitrosopiperadine, a strong carcinogen.

- Aflatoxins and Ochratoxin A are natural toxins made by fungal food contaminants that also cause cancer in animals and humans.

Davey Moore

1. American Spirits
2. Classic Marlboro 100s, aka The Cowboy Killers
3. Camel, Turkish Gold
4. Parliaments, non menthol
5. Kamel Reds


However, Pall Malls have the best slogan:

Wherever particular people congregate

It's like it speaks more about a place and a mood than the cigarettes themselves. It sounds like a counter-cultural slogan. Instead, it's Pall Malls.

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The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.

Dr_Rez

Here where I live if you are smoking Pall Malls you typically have a money shortage

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*Shave one of my legs to pretend its a girl in my bed crew*

VEGANGELICA

Third-hand smoke definitely exists...it is the stink you smell on the skin, hair, and clothes of people who smoke, and in the rooms they smoked in due to contamination of sofas, carpet, walls, etc.

The main health concern is for infants, who breathe in more dust and residues in homes since they are closer to the floor, and so are more likely than adults to be affected by third-hand smoke. Also, infants are more susceptible than adults to respiratory troubles and developmental harm caused by carcinogens and other chemicals. What is third-hand smoke? Is it hazardous?: Scientific American

The danger of a carcinogen is a function of the carcinogen's strength, exposure time, and the developmental stage of the person. I doubt most infants are given a lot of coffee, chocolate, pepper, and peanut butter, so the negative impact of third-hand smoke on infants whose parents smoke could be much greater compared to the impact of carcinogens in those foods.

On what basis do you assume that the harm of third-hand smoke is inconsequential compared to the harm of other carcinogens you list? And does the fact that an infant could be murdered mean we shouldn't care about environmental pollutants she is exposed to?

Second-hand smoke (the smoke inhaled by children as parents smoke around them) is much more of a concern than third-hand smoke, but this doesn't mean the negative effect of third-hand smoke on children or adults is negligible and should be ignored or minimized by claiming research into this topic is "agenda-terror." I find it odd that you both feel a certain topic should be off limits to scientists who are trying to understand more fully the negative impacts of smoking on people who are involuntarily exposed.

Here's a brand of cigarette to add to the list: The Candy Cigarette. Hook your customers on the habit while they're young!

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Sansa Stark

This is less likely especially in America nowadays, flavored cigarettes (besides menthol if that counts) are illegal, specifically to stop kids from smoking early because those cigarettes taste like candy. Cigarettes don't exactly taste good, unless they're clove or flavored, so bully that.

VEGANGELICA

Oh, I meant actual *candy* cigarettes (like the bubblegum ones shown), not cigarettes that have added flavoring. I didn't know real cigarettes with added flavoring even existed!

I looked up the laws about candy cigarettes and found that the U.S. still allows them. In Canada, the candy cigarette industry faces a little more legal control: the packaging on candy cigarettes can't be made to resemble real cigarette branding.

Meanwhile, selling candy cigarettes has been downright banned in several countries: Finland, Norway, the Republic of Ireland, Turkey and Saudi Arabia. I guess Tore isn't getting high off sugar cigarettes during his MusicBanter hiatus, unless he is part of some underground candy cigarette smuggling ring in Europe!

I found out that the U.S. Family Smoking and Prevention Control Act bans any form of added flavoring in tobacco cigarettes other than menthol--so that must be the law you're referring to, Paloma. My gosh, those people at cigarettes companies who added kid-enticing flavoring to cancer sticks are almost diabolical! I wish I were religious, then I could call them diabolical.

I "smoked" bubblegum cigarettes when I was a kid. I thought they were cool. They weren't very good bubblegum though. My memory of bubblegum cigarettes is that they were very hard and difficult to chew, with little taste. Maybe I had the wrong brand of candy cigarette. Maybe another candy cigarette brand would have been more flavorful.

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Freebase Dali

What are the documented negative effects of "third-hand" smoke in infants?

IWP

I'm quite a Kool guy if ya know what I mean.

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