Last chance to evacuate Earth...

Guybrush · 04-04-2013, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

One page in and we're already talking about eugenics.

We're talking about the survival of the human race! The smaller the (colonising) population is, the more important it will be to make sure the common genome is in order.

But, I also mentioned that we need diversity - and stand by that - so from a PC point of view, I think I should be in the clear.

**Janszoon** · 04-04-2013, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

We're talking about the survival of the human race! The smaller the (colonising) population is, the more important it will be to make sure the common genome is in order.

But, I also mentioned that we need diversity - and stand by that - so from a PC point of view, I think I should be in the clear.

I just thought it was funny that your last post immediately singled out Africans for exclusion from the ship and that you followed that up by commenting that a lot of your genes' "close family" would be on board. I know you well enough to know that your comment wasn't intended to come off the way it did, which is why it was kind of humorous to me.

Nurse Duckett · 04-04-2013, 06:15 AM

Maybe a happy compromise would be if every human being was allowed one vote, you could nominate one person that you wanted to be on the Ark. Some people would nominate themselves, others would nominate people like the Pope or the Dalai Lama, here comes the silver lining, millions of people would vote for Justin Bieber or Lady Gaga and possibly Greenday. I know it doesn't change the fact that you're still getting left behind to face certain death, but it does mean that you no longer have to live on the same planet as some of the people I mentioned earlier, every cloud. What if there's no youtube in space, its not a chance I'm willing to take.

My vote would go to Will.i.am, just out of pure spite.

It was a toss up between him and Thatcher, but the way I see it Thatchers going to be dead soon anyway, and I wouldn't want her to die in outer space, I wouldn't want to miss the party. I wouldn't miss it for the world.

Guybrush · 04-04-2013, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I just thought it was funny that your last post immediately singled out Africans for exclusion from the ship and that you followed that up by commenting that a lot of your genes' "close family" would be on board. I know you well enough to know that your comment wasn't intended to come off the way it did, which is why it was kind of humorous to me.

How did I single out Africans for exclusion? Africa represents a wealth of humanity's genetic diversity and that should of course be represented in humanity's survivist colony.

The close family comment may be a little hard to get for people who don't study biology, but evolution rewards the procreation of genes. You give your genes to your kids which pass them on to their kids and so, in a way, some of what makes you you will still exist in the future. This has implications like we tend to be nicer to people whom we share genes with. Because humans are not that genetically diverse, that may well explain in part why we are so seemingly altruistic and good at cooperating and it also means that the people going away on that ship carry with them part of what makes you you. Probably more so if a representative from your nation, ethnic minority, etc, is on that ship.

So, if they are "sufficiently diverse", I would regard the group of colonists going as someone who ensures not just the survival of themselves (which I expect is what leads to comments like "shoot them into a black hole"), but all of us. Family, in a way, even if they aren't. Hence, my genes close family.

edit :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurse Duckett

Maybe a happy compromise would be if every human being was allowed one vote, you could nominate one person that you wanted to be on the Ark. Some people would nominate themselves, others would nominate people like the Pope or the Dalai Lama, here comes the silver lining, millions of people would vote for Justin Bieber or Lady Gaga and possibly Greenday. I know it doesn't change the fact that you're still getting left behind to face certain death, but it does mean that you no longer have to live on the same planet as some of the people I mentioned earlier, every cloud. What if there's no youtube in space, its not a chance I'm willing to take.

I understand the wish to have everyone's opinion matter, but in such specific circumstances (one ship to carry X amount of people), I think who gets to go would be better left up to experts rather than popular opinion. You should try to maximize the probability for mission success (humanity's survival) rather than maximize some short-lived satisfaction of having a say for all the people who are soon going to be dead.

edit :

I also know you were not completely serious. In before someone points that out.

**Janszoon** · 04-04-2013, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

How did I single out Africans for exclusion?

Because the only "bad genes" you mentioned were those that result in sickle cell disease, a condition that that primarily affects people of African decent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Africa represents a wealth of humanity's genetic diversity and that should of course be represented in humanity's survivist colony. Go back far enough and we're all africans.

The close family comment may be a little hard to get for people who don't study biology, but evolution rewards the procreation of genes. You give your genes to your kids which pass them on to their kids and so, in a way, what makes you you will still exist in the future. This has implications like we tend to be nicer to people whom we share genes with. Because humans are not that genetically diverse, that may well explain in part why we are so seemingly altruistic and good at cooperating and it also means that the people going away on that ship carry with them part of what makes you you. Probably more so if a representative from your nation, ethnic minority, etc, is on that ship.

So, if they are "sufficiently diverse", I would regard the group of colonists going as someone who ensures not just the survival of themselves (which I expect is what leads to comments like "shoot them into a black hole"), but all of us.

Again, Tore, I just found it humorous because of how your comment sounded, not what you actually meant. I was joking with the eugenics comment, hence the laughing smiley.

Guybrush · 04-04-2013, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Because the only "bad genes" you mentioned were those that result in sickle cell disease, a condition that that primarily affects people of African decent.

It is more common in areas with malaria because being a (single allele) carrier for the gene helps make you malaria-resistant. But it's not something which exclusively affects black people of Africa and neither do I think it is regarded as something that makes someone typically african. And it's not like all africans carry sickle cell disease.

So I don't think excluding sickle cell disease from the ship means noone with african heritage gets to go. The imaginative length you'd have to go to in order to get that out of what I wrote is, in my opinion, very far.

**Janszoon** · 04-04-2013, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

It is more common in areas with malaria because being a (single allele) carrier for the gene helps make you malaria-resistant. But it's not something which exclusively affects black people of Africa and neither do I think it is regarded as something that makes someone typically african. And it's not like all africans carry sickle cell disease.

So I don't think excluding sickle cell disease from the ship means noone with african heritage gets to go. The imaginative length you'd have to go to in order to get that out of what I wrote is, in my opinion, very far.

Once again, it was a joke. Relax.

P A N · 04-04-2013, 07:29 AM

this is such a cool thread.

trollheart, i will definitely be watching this doc in the next few days when i have time.

and personally, i think you should at least try to write a book or a screenplay or something. it might make a little gap in your MB legacy, but it would certainly be worth it.

**Janszoon** · 04-04-2013, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rostasi

Do animals get to go?
(and I don't mean Ted Nugent)

I would think they'd have to. We'd kind of have to take a chunk of our ecosystem with us in order to survive in the long term.

djchameleon · 04-04-2013, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

What bugs me most about it is that there was not even a smidgeon of discussion about the ethics of polluting space with nuclear radiation in order to provide ourselves a power source. All they were worried about was where would it come from and would we have enough, and could we protect ourselves from the blasts? I mean, three nuclear bombs PER SECOND? Do you have any idea what that is going to do to space? And we're just assuming there's no other life out there: there could be, and we could be endangering or even destroying it. Again, yay Mankind!

You know why they didn't care to discuss polluting space? It's because there are already so many forms of radiation in space already that it would be like a raindrop into a well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Though this would be a totally amazing premise for a TV series wouldn't it? If I had the contacts to pitch it I would; if I had the discipline to write the book I would. I'd see season one the building of the ship, the worry about who gets to go, the thing seen maybe through the eyes of those left behind versus the lucky few, maybe a family could be split up on that basis. Civil war across the Earth as the left-behinders try to wreck the plans to leave. New religions rise, one is called Fatalism and believes it is a sin to desert our planet and that God wants us all to die yada yada.

Then end of season one the ship is launched, Earth dies and for the next few seasons we're in space, facing all the challenges of a city/world in space, with people splitting into factions aboard the ship, law and order trying to be maintained (maybe one of the characters is a cop) and perhaps little wars breaking out across the ship and so on. Eventually the ship arrives and the next seasons take place on the new planet as Man tries to establish his new home.

Man, it could be huge! Where's Spielberg when you need him? Or JJ Abrams?

Nooooo, keep Abrams away from it. I'm tired of his overuse of lens flares. Other than that, it sounds like it could be a pretty good show.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I would think they'd have to. We'd kind of have to take a chunk of our ecosystem with us in order to survive in the long term.

We probably wouldn't have to take all animals. We could just take their DNA and clone them.

04-04-2013, 06:15 AM	#13 (permalink)
Nurse Duckett Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 148	Maybe a happy compromise would be if every human being was allowed one vote, you could nominate one person that you wanted to be on the Ark. Some people would nominate themselves, others would nominate people like the Pope or the Dalai Lama, here comes the silver lining, millions of people would vote for Justin Bieber or Lady Gaga and possibly Greenday. I know it doesn't change the fact that you're still getting left behind to face certain death, but it does mean that you no longer have to live on the same planet as some of the people I mentioned earlier, every cloud. What if there's no youtube in space, its not a chance I'm willing to take. My vote would go to Will.i.am, just out of pure spite. It was a toss up between him and Thatcher, but the way I see it Thatchers going to be dead soon anyway, and I wouldn't want her to die in outer space, I wouldn't want to miss the party. I wouldn't miss it for the world.

04-04-2013, 07:29 AM	#18 (permalink)
P A N DO LIKE YOU. Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 629	this is such a cool thread. trollheart, i will definitely be watching this doc in the next few days when i have time. and personally, i think you should at least try to write a book or a screenplay or something. it might make a little gap in your MB legacy, but it would certainly be worth it.