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-   -   The queer corner (https://www.musicbanter.com/lounge/92245-queer-corner.html)

adidasss 08-06-2018 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolverinewolfweiselpigeon (Post 1984076)

https://memegenerator.net/img/instan...ght-people.jpg

where's the STRAIGHT pride parade huh????

:laughing:

*two seconds later*

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1984153)
Can I make a straight corner on a queer forum? I feel like I'd get banned if I even suggested it.

Wow. Ok.

You seem like a classic troll but I'll indulge you in this one and respond.

First question would be, what are you, as a straight person, doing on a queer forum? [probable answer:trolling]
Second question, why do you need or think a "straight" corner would be beneficial to you?

If you can come up with a rational, non-trolling reason for the above two questions, I'm sure you wouldn't be banned. :)

For me, this is the hypothetical situation where your parallel would be applicable and valid:

You are raised by gay parents in the Castro district of San Francisco, they don't allow you to leave this area, you have no access to any media aside from gay TV shows, films and news (with about 0.001% straight content) so you join this hypothetical queer forum since these are the only things you know and there are only a handful of straight people there, therefore you feel slightly isolated and wouldn't mind sharing things with people who are like you and would therefore probably be interested in reading about things that are not so very interesting for your surroundings, since they are, you know, predominantly gay.

Reality:
You are a straight troll who lives in a predominantly heterosexual world and is therefore not isolated from anything since your whole surrounding reflects your sexual reality and who would join a queer forum just to troll on queer people since there is no valid reason why: a) you would join a queer forum and b) why you would need to open a "straight" corner on this queer forum.

/EOD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan (Post 1984195)
serious discussion: Should Music Banter members scream the F-word?
What do you think?
  • Is it like cool, no big deal, anyone can call anyone the f-word.
  • It depend on the situation, like it's OK if as long as the two involved are cool with it, other people shouldn't care the f-word is being thrown around.
  • People really need to refrain from using the word on Music Banter.

Interesting, more trolls.
I don't find this particularly surprising, since it's the internet, what I find a little disconcerting is the apparent lack of moderation here, if I may be a little critical with the current version of musicbanter.

It would be perfect if you could moderate your own threads at least but not likely I guess.

To answer your "serious" query, try replacing the F-word with the N-word, see how many laughs you get. :/

grindy 08-06-2018 12:57 AM

Not everyone is a troll, adi.
Nea's question seems to be honest.
Dwn is not a troll either.
This thread is and will stay moderated and believe me, genuinely homophobic **** will not be tolerated.
Bants and discussions, even kinda dumb ones, will not be interfered with, though.

adidasss 08-06-2018 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy (Post 1984207)
Not everyone is a troll, adi.
Nea's question seems to be honest.
Dwn is not a troll either.
This thread is and will stay moderated and believe me, genuinely homophobic **** will not be tolerated.
Bants and discussions, even kinda dumb ones, will not be interfered with, though.

I really don't see how a question about the allowability to use the F-word in 2018 could possibly be genuine.

And you think that posting what are clearly meant to be offensive gay stereotypes/jokes that contribute nothing to this thread, is not trolling?

Sorry, that seems like poor standards of moderation to me.

If you want to make this place attractive to mature and productive discussion and posters, you need to set your bar higher methinks. :/

grindy 08-06-2018 02:02 AM

I'm afraid we're semi-mature and semi-productive at discussions at best.
If you'd know the members better you'd probably react differently. Probably not.

Key 08-06-2018 02:08 AM

lol maturity

Chula Vista 08-06-2018 02:23 AM

lol production

adidasss 08-06-2018 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy (Post 1984216)
I'm afraid we're semi-mature and semi-productive at discussions at best.
If you'd know the members better you'd probably react differently. Probably not.

Ok, my bad, carry on.

MicShazam 08-06-2018 02:35 AM

It is a shame that this thread is already just 5 pages of pointless bickering.

And the suggestion that creating a gay thread at a a predominantly straight forum would be equivalent to creating a straight thread at a gay forum is either ignorant or intellectually dishonest.

Am I reading the intentions behind some of the complaints wrong, or are some people here feeling offended that gay people don't want to talk to them or something? The point of a queer thread wouldn't be to exclude straight people, but to bring people who share a minority issue together so they can talk about it.

grindy 08-06-2018 02:51 AM

Yeah, I'm a bit disappointed by Dwn. He's usually better than that. That analogy is intellectually lazy at best.

The Batlord 08-06-2018 04:15 AM

Almost entirely sure she was being ironic, dudes.

MicShazam 08-06-2018 04:33 AM

It's hard to tell, since it's exactly the kind of thing some people would say.

The Batlord 08-06-2018 04:42 AM

It helps that she's probably the least likely person on the forum to saying something like that seriously.

DwnWthVwls 08-06-2018 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss (Post 1984204)
First question would be, what are you, as a straight person, doing on a queer forum? [probable answer:trolling]
Second question, why do you need or think a "straight" corner would be beneficial to you?

I was trolling Batlord since he is probably the biggest offender of using homophobic slang and decided to be the threads biggest defender.

But to answer your questions:

1) I'm straight but genuinely care about human rights with a focus in the queer community.
2) It would be a place for straight people to discuss what they could do within their own circles that queer people may not be able to participate in. Don't pretend like straight hating doesn't exist in the queer community even if they are fighting for the queer side.

You should try to get to know the new members after a long hiatus, you might comprehend the responses and follow the discussion better. Lots of sarcasm around here and we all know each other's posting style well enough to typically understand the intent of the post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicShazam (Post 1984234)
It's hard to tell, since it's exactly the kind of thing some people would say.

I'm not one of them. :finger:

Oriphiel 08-06-2018 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss (Post 1984212)
And you think that posting what are clearly meant to be offensive gay stereotypes/jokes that contribute nothing to this thread, is not trolling?

Where did anyone post offensive stereotypes? If you're talking about those Hi-NRG songs, than I think you need to learn more about the genre. The scene was pivotal in bringing an acceptance of open and proud homosexuality to the mainstream.

If you're talking about the Hard Gay gif, than do you have a problem with a sexually aggressive person decked out in leather? 'Cause there are legit plenty of people like that, and belittling them is kinda bigoted. Rob Halford is disappointed in you, man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicShazam (Post 1984223)
Am I reading the intentions behind some of the complaints wrong, or are some people here feeling offended that gay people don't want to talk to them or something? The point of a queer thread wouldn't be to exclude straight people, but to bring people who share a minority issue together so they can talk about it.

Complaints? :laughing:

Maybe some LGBT members just find it funny that someone felt the need to make a "queer corner", when we've had no trouble with just discussing LGBT rights issues in the news thread, sexual experiences in the sex thread, etc. Maybe I was just explaining why I didn't feel the need to post in here in the future, but then changed my mind 'cause, eh, what the hell, why not?

MicShazam 08-06-2018 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1984236)
I'm not one of them. :finger:

Allright, allright I'm sorry.

Oriphiel 08-06-2018 05:57 AM

Here's something I've been thinking about lately if you guys want to discuss it:

How much does someone's sexual orientation affect their personality? Like, if you suddenly realized that you want to start experimenting, or deep down you want to switch genders, and so on, how much do you think it would change the core of your person?

Afaik, it's never been scientifically proven that straight or LGBT people have higher or lower levels of average intellect, or are more prone to criminal behavior, or anything like that. And just because you'd rather have sex with one gender over another doesn't mean that you fulfill the image of what the world has accepted as an average LGBT person (the sassy gay fashionista, the butch lesbian, etc.). It's fine if you are, but obviously the archetypes don't perfectly apply to everyone.

LGBT people are as intellectually varied as straight people, and all have varying lifestyles. But I've met some LGBT people who kinda looked down on straight people, and certainly vice versa, and I've never understood that mentality. Like, they would have thought the person they're trashing talking was an awesome person if they didn't know their orientation, so why should it matter to them at all?

Anti-LGBT peeps almost always use the same "argument" to justify their bull****: "It's not natural!"

And I'm like, bitch, humans are animals, literally everything we do is part of our "natural" behavior.

Why do people give so much of a **** about what kind of person other people like to have sex with? As long as it's between consenting adults, why should it matter?

But here's my real question that I've been leading up to:

Was the movie Chasing Amy an awful and bigoted piece of trash, or was it actually a pretty smart look at problems that we all have to this day? People always **** on it because the girl (who identifies as a lesbian) ends up falling in love with a guy. They see it as some sort of commentary that all lesbians are just pretending, or something like that.

But I think the point was that sexual orientation isn't always clear cut. People always say "Being gay isn't a choice", and that's certainly true for some people, but for others, it takes a lot of experimentation before they really figure out who/what they want from life. And yet so many people, both LGBT and straight, look down on people who are unsure, especially when they say they're one orientation but then change their mind. They look at them like they're a traitor, or a faker, or something, when they're just trying to figure out what's what.

So, like, is the movie actually kinda insightful in that way? Did people misunderstand it?

MicShazam 08-06-2018 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel (Post 1984245)
Anti-LGBT peeps almost always use the same "argument" to justify their bull****: "It's not natural!"

That argument is so dumb it always cracks me up. "Not natural". So what? Is driving a car natural? We're human beings. We bend the world to our will.

Oriphiel 08-06-2018 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicShazam (Post 1984246)
That argument is so dumb it always cracks me up. "Not natural". So what? Is driving a car natural? We're human beings. We bend the world to our will.

Exactly.

And, like, even if some deity came down from the heavens and said "Okay guys, here's my new and improved list of what is/isn't natural", I still wouldn't care, because "natural" is not synonymous with "better". Poison hemlock is "natural", but I'd much rather eat vat grown beef.

And again, technically everything we do/are is "natural". It's all just shades of human behavior.

DwnWthVwls 08-06-2018 07:22 AM

Ehh.. technically not. What's natural isn't determined by any human behavior. I think you're crossing the two common usages of the word.

I can understand your usage and agree with the way you use it for discussions sake, but that's not how the word is commonly understood or used.

Oriphiel 08-06-2018 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1984251)
Ehh.. technically not. What's natural isn't determined by any human behavior. I think you're crossing the two common usages of the word.

I can understand your usage and agree with the way you use it for discussions sake, but that's not how the word is commonly understood or used.

I was adressing both usages, and how no matter which usage people try to argue with, their arguments are still flawed.

In terms of "natural" being a following of naturally occuring behavior, everything humans do is part of that behavior. The towers we build, cars we drive, sex we crave, are all as natural as ants building hills.

And in terms of "natural" being what people should do, an arbitrary state of selective simplicity/innocence, it's incredibly hypocritical for people reaping the benefits of modern science and technology to draw moral lines in the sand against nonviolent things that are as fundamentally valid as other consensual lifestyle choices. Religious extremism has harmed far more people than homosexuality ever will, yet fundamentalists never seem to think of violent zealotry as "unnatural".

elphenor 08-06-2018 08:41 AM

homosexuality seems clearly natural regardless as it seems to exist (usually repressed) in every culture we study

Oriphiel 08-06-2018 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1984257)
homosexuality seems clearly natural regardless as it seems to exist (usually repressed) in every culture we study

And not just in humanity. Homosexual behavior occurs in a staggering number of other animals as well.

Zhanteimi 08-06-2018 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss (Post 1983998)
Being a minority

pfffft

DwnWthVwls 08-06-2018 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel (Post 1984254)
I was adressing both usages, and how no matter which usage people try to argue with, their arguments are still flawed.

In terms of "natural" being a following of naturally occuring behavior, everything humans do is part of that behavior. The towers we build, cars we drive, sex we crave, are all as natural as ants building hills.

And in terms of "natural" being what people should do, an arbitrary state of selective simplicity/innocence, it's incredibly hypocritical for people reaping the benefits of modern science and technology to draw moral lines in the sand against nonviolent things that are as fundamentally valid as other consensual lifestyle choices. Religious extremism has harmed far more people than homosexuality ever will, yet fundamentalists never seem to think of violent zealotry as "unnatural".

Not what people "should" do, more the generalized commonality among a species. Eating paint chips is not natural human behavior just because some human decides to do it, even with this technicality argument youre trying to use. Do you plan to argue that a lion and an antelope raised in captivity who form a non-predator/prey relationship is natural?

Homosexuality is natural. People who use it in the way your describing are being dishonest.

Frownland 08-06-2018 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1984272)
Not what people "should" do, more the generalized commonality among a species. Eating paint chips is not natural just because some human decides to do it, it's not natural human behavior not even with this technicality argument youre trying to use. Homosexuality is natural. People who use it in the way your describing are being dishonest.

You're confusing common with natural.

Cuthbert 08-06-2018 09:27 AM

Why are we discussing whether it's natural and why does it matter?

DwnWthVwls 08-06-2018 09:27 AM

No i'm not. Ori is misusing the common usage of the word. I already conceited for discussion sake I understand his points, but that's not how natural is used colloquially or scientifically.

elphenor 08-06-2018 09:28 AM

scientifically natural is referring to human behavior outside cultural and technological influence

Frownland 08-06-2018 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1984279)
No i'm not. Ori is misusing the common usage of the word. I already conceited for discussion sake I understand his points, but that's not how natural is used colloquially or scientifically.

Not the best way to contradict someone who's saying that the word natural is commonly used incorrectly, is it?

DwnWthVwls 08-06-2018 09:30 AM

Yeah, anthropology totally ignores those things. What was I thinking?

Key 08-06-2018 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1984231)
Almost entirely sure she was being ironic, dudes.

I figured she was joking as well. Though I'm still pretty confused as to why people have to debate whether or not this thread has to exist. Who cares? Adidasss wanted a queer corner thread, let him have it. We usually never have problems with people creating their own personal threads, but it being about homosexuality seems to have people's panties in a twist.

DwnWthVwls 08-06-2018 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1984281)
Not the best way to contradict someone who's saying that the word natural is commonly used incorrectly, is it?

Cool than make an argument against the question I posed in my edit:

Do you plan to argue that a lion and an antelope raised in captivity who form a non-predator/prey relationship is natural?

Chiomara 08-06-2018 09:33 AM

So does anyone else think that Taylor Swift is secretly a lesbian/professional beard? I get major gay vibes from her, in part due to her whole PR narrative (especially when comparing her to Chely Wright, the previously closeted country singer)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel (Post 1984245)
Here's something I've been thinking about lately if you guys want to discuss it:

How much does someone's sexual orientation affect their personality? Like, if you suddenly realized that you want to start experimenting, or deep down you want to switch genders, and so on, how much do you think it would change the core of your person?

I know that a lot of bisexual women (for instance) -- at least the younger ones-- will temporarily feel the need to change their appearance (I know you said personality, but I figure it's worth mentioning) so that other bisexual/gay women don't assume they're straight. "Bi invisibility," they call it. So they'll get a bad asymmetrical haircut and start wearing more plaid and have a Tegan & Sara phase or whatever. I can only speak for other women, but I know that realizing you're gay or bi can also cause you to reexamine and change your behavior to a degree-- I wouldn't say one's core personality changes but it can definitely change your behavior and make you suddenly hyper-aware of things like performative femininity and greatly reduce your willingness to participate in such things. I feel like things can get especially muddled and confusing for bisexuals, since we get demonized a lot and accused of merely experimenting before ultimately settling down with a man. But butch lesbians (for instance) definitely have it worse in terms of public misconceptions and such, even within the lgbt community.

And then there's the asexuals who still desire romantic relationships with those of the same sex; many lgbt people believe that if you do not actually have sex with those of the same sex, you can't call yourself gay/lesbian. I've always wondered how one should identify if, say, you're basically asexual, in part due to past sexual trauma, but can experience romantic love for the same sex, but do not wish to have sex (for whatever reason if not simple sex aversion/disinterest) despite wanting to be physically close/intimate with them in other romantic but non-sexual ways. Seems to be a lot of disagreement around the issue within the online communities I've lurked in.

But anyway, I think it partly depends on the level of aggressive social conditioning/repression that one experiences growing up; if one doesn't fully/consciously realize they're gay or bi till they're in their 20s or older then yes, I think that could very well change a core part of their personality upon accepting it-- or rather, a false part of our persona dies, one that was created in order to survive peacefully in bigoted small towns/closed-minded or abusive families or what-have-you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel (Post 1984245)
But here's my real question that I've been leading up to:

Was the movie Chasing Amy an awful and bigoted piece of trash, or was it actually a pretty smart look at problems that we all have to this day? People always **** on it because the girl (who identifies as a lesbian) ends up falling in love with a guy. They see it as some sort of commentary that all lesbians are just pretending, or something like that.

But I think the point was that sexual orientation isn't always clear cut. People always say "Being gay isn't a choice", and that's certainly true for some people, but for others, it takes a lot of experimentation before they really figure out who/what they want from life. And yet so many people, both LGBT and straight, look down on people who are unsure, especially when they say they're one orientation but then change their mind. They look at them like they're a traitor, or a faker, or something, when they're just trying to figure out what's what.

So, like, is the movie actually kinda insightful in that way? Did people misunderstand it?

I very much agree with the bolded part.

I don't actually remember much of the movie at all, but I recall not being too fond of it since I for one am tired of lesbians being written as confused bisexuals. I mean, it's just a movie-- I think the storyline is a bit dumb but I wouldn't say it's a ~commentary really. Lesbians ultimately realizing they're bisexual and vice versa-- it does happen, just not usually in the way it's depicted in tv and movies. A much more common story in real life is a gay person being strung along by their straight-but-bi-curious friend and getting hurt.

And then in other movies (including those written by women) you've got the Doomed Lesbians trope where one either dies or suffers horribly at the end and the other starts dating a man or whatever. The LGBT movies on netflix are a trainwreck for the most part. (I really wanted to like Blue Is the Warmest Color, but in the end it was just your average indie mumblecore type film but with lesbian sex thrown in. I mean, I liked it, but it wasn't amazing)

Anyway, I sure hope this thread doesn't get bogged down by tedious Discourse™ about nothing.

Frownland 08-06-2018 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1984286)
Cool than make an argument against the question I posed in my edit:

Do you plan to argue that a lion and an antelope raised in captivity who form a non-predator/prey relationship is natural?

Naturally.

DwnWthVwls 08-06-2018 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1984289)
Naturally.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ca/a8...04df88482a.jpg

DwnWthVwls 08-06-2018 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiomara (Post 1984288)
Anyway, I sure hope this thread doesn't get bogged down by tedious Discourse™ about nothing.

I was hoping the OP would actually create some sort of discussion, but I don't see that happening so the children are now playing in the thread.

Key 08-06-2018 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1984294)
I was hoping the OP would actually create some sort of discussion, but I don't see that happening so the children are now playing in the thread.

I assumed the title of the thread was evident enough as to what the OP wanted to talk about. I took that it meant: "anyone who wants to discuss LGBT issues or topics can post in here". At least that's what I pulled from it. Seems pretty self explanatory.

DwnWthVwls 08-06-2018 09:46 AM

I'm just gonna role with the discussion Ori has started. Thanks Kiiii, you're wonderful :D

Cuthbert 08-06-2018 09:47 AM

This thread is classic MB.

If new posters want to see what this forum is about, just link them to this thread.

Key 08-06-2018 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1984298)
I'm just gonna role with the discussion Ori has started. Thanks Kiiii, you're wonderful :D

I'm just helping clarify since you seem confused.


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