Music Banter

Go Back   Music Banter > Community Center > The Lounge
Register Blogging Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Welcome to Music Banter Forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with over 70,000 other registered members. After you create your free account, you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 1,100,000 posts.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-20-2018, 07:47 AM   #71 (permalink)
Me llamo Marijan
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 6,983
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OccultHawk View Post
Remember when Trump said we kill people, too? He was right, you know.
Well that's certainly true, but not american people, surely, not critics, or at least not lately...and certainly not in such a shockingly open and gruesome way...
adidasss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2018, 08:17 AM   #72 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dirty Souf Biatch
Posts: 14,703
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adidasss View Post
Well that's certainly true, but not american people, surely, not critics, or at least not lately...and certainly not in such a shockingly open and gruesome way...
Tell that to every American family that lost a member for walking while black.
OccultHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2018, 08:19 AM   #73 (permalink)
Born To Be Mild
 
Lisnaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: He lives on Love Street
Posts: 3,171
Default

^ Governments are understandably cautious about suddenly changing allegiances in an area as volatile as the Middle East, so if you're hoping to see any dramatic action I think you'll be disappointed, adidasss.
Long-term, it might be possible to undermine the Saudi's strong global position, and here's how:-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisnaholic View Post
Voting still brings about change ....vote for parties that promote green energy solutions and the Saudi Oil bogeyman will see his stranglehold on the West declining.
__________________
Did you ever hear of having more than you wanted? So that you couldn’t want anything else and then started looking for something else to want? It seems like we’re always searching for something to satisfy us, and never finding it. - Susan Eloise Hinton, 1967
Lisnaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2018, 08:31 AM   #74 (permalink)
Me llamo Marijan
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 6,983
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OccultHawk View Post
Tell that to every American family that lost a member for walking while black.
Apples and oranges brah

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisnaholic View Post
^ Governments are understandably cautious about suddenly changing allegiances in an area as volatile as the Middle East, so if you're hoping to see any dramatic action I think you'll be disappointed, adidasss.
Long-term, it might be possible to undermine the Saudi's strong global position, and here's how:-
You're probably right Lisna, the region is extremely complicated, and who knows, maybe backing Saudi Arabia is actually the least bad option at the moment. Hopefully, one day, the people will topple all their oppressive regimes and fight for their better future themselves. :/
adidasss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2018, 09:30 AM   #75 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dirty Souf Biatch
Posts: 14,703
Default

Quote:
maybe backing Saudi Arabia is actually the least bad option at the moment
FTR, Iran was well on the way to being a shining star of liberalism in the Muslim world before we radicalized them and funded their horrible war with Iraq. If we hadn’t been so set on constantly destabilizing the Middle East maybe we would have trading partners who aren’t monsters.

The people of Iran have been calling out for cultural liberation for decades. The women used to wear blue jeans and sunglasses and went to discos and all that. We have been ****ing with them forever. It’s bull****.
OccultHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2018, 09:58 AM   #76 (permalink)
All day jazz and biscuits
 
The Batlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Beating GNR at DDR and keying Axl's new car
Posts: 40,209
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisnaholic View Post
^ Governments are understandably cautious about suddenly changing allegiances in an area as volatile as the Middle East, so if you're hoping to see any dramatic action I think you'll be disappointed, adidasss.
Long-term, it might be possible to undermine the Saudi's strong global position, and here's how:-
Why would the American government give a **** about our opinions on Saudi Arabia? It's a big issue for 9/10 people who don't exist and the economic and political realities of changing our relationship with them would be extreme. So long as politicians do nothing and let things be as they've always been they know full well it won't endanger their re-elections, whereas if they try rocking the boat they paint a target on their ass.
__________________
BRING ME THE HORIZON >>>> CHARLES MINGUS
i
The Batlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2018, 02:52 AM   #77 (permalink)
Me llamo Marijan
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 6,983
Default

It's also nice to see how the story is covered by some of Saudi Arabia's other BFFs. This is from the leading UAE newspaper:

https://www.thenational.ae/world/men...grows-1.782387

Quote:
Senior scholars in Saudi meanwhile have praised the kingdom's response. The country's highest religious body, the Council of Senior Scholars, on Saturday said the king's decisions on the death of Khashoggi would "achieve justice and equality in accordance with Islamic law", according to a statement on state news agency SPA.

Walid Al-Sama'ani, Saudi's justice minister, said on Saturday that the judiciary had "full independence" to deal with the Khashoggi case and that "the issue will take its regular course...and will reach the judiciary after the completion of the prosecution requirements", according to the Saudi Press Agency.
So much lulz.
adidasss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2018, 07:03 AM   #78 (permalink)
Born To Be Mild
 
Lisnaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: He lives on Love Street
Posts: 3,171
Default

^ That's an interesting but sinister-sounding quote!

It's about 19 days after Jamal's murder and despite multiple attempts the Saudi's still don't have a lie in place that stands up to any scrutiny. The footage revealed today of a body double strolling out of the embassy in Jamal's clothes is damning evidence of pre-meditation imo.

And here's some context, some pattern-of-behaviour stuff about how three or four other Saudi critics have gone missing in the last year:-

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-mi...-going-missing
__________________
Did you ever hear of having more than you wanted? So that you couldn’t want anything else and then started looking for something else to want? It seems like we’re always searching for something to satisfy us, and never finding it. - Susan Eloise Hinton, 1967
Lisnaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2018, 08:13 AM   #79 (permalink)
Me llamo Marijan
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 6,983
Default


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=41wj-5YKzkQ

Wow.

But even with this there is still room for the Saudis to claim the top of the government didn't know. What I read today was that apparently they traced some phone calls to the Prince's office after the murder. I think that's as good of a smoking gun they'll ever get.

Everything now depends on Turkey and what their interest here is. If they want the Saudis in trouble, they have the means to put them in trouble. If they get something in return, this could all very easily go away. But it seems, according to the information leaking, from turkish officials, that they mean business.

Let's see what Erdogan will do on Tuesday.
adidasss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2018, 02:16 AM   #80 (permalink)
Me llamo Marijan
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 6,983
Default

Very interesting analysis of the situation:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ogan-wants-him

Quote:
Erdoğan has the Saudis – in particular, the crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman (AKA MbS) – right where he wants him. Out of crisis has come opportunity for the veteran Turkish leader, who has never warmed to the brash 33-year-old, and thinks even less of his regional allies.

The two men have vastly different visions for the future of the region: Erdoğan has been a champion of political Islam both at home and abroad, particularly since the rise and fall of Mohamed Morsi, the ill-fated former president of Egypt who hailed from the Muslim Brotherhood. The Turkish president has partnered with Qatar, Riyadh’s regional foe, given shelter to those exiled after Morsi fell, and remained a bulwark for a movement that Riyadh and its ally the United Arab Emirates see as existential threats.

But he has remained on the losing end of the struggle for regional power and influence.

The prince, meanwhile, has been attempting to remodel Saudi Arabia, eschewing its deep links to the Wahhabi, Salafi religious establishment and turning it into an Arab nationalist police state. Abu Dhabi and Cairo are models here. And with Riyadh, the triumvirate had been in the ascendant regionally, ever since Morsi fell.

For Erdoğan, the gruesome killing marks a historic moment: a chance to turn the tables gifted to him by a cruel and reckless act that has sparked lasting revulsion, even among the kingdom’s allies.
A check mate situation, gifted to Erdogan. I have to say I don't particularly care for the man, as I don't like any autocrat, but I do hope he takes this chances and shakes up the region.
adidasss is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads



© 2003-2019 Advameg, Inc.