What TV shows are people watching?

Trollheart · 06-18-2012, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojopinuk

What did you not like about Episodes? Personally I have been enjoying it.

Not sure. I watched two, realised I didn't think it was funny in the least, was very predictable (really? The guy who wrote the book the series was based on was going to be kicked off the show? Didn't see THAT coming!) and Matt LeBlanc was just teeth-grindingly annoying in it. As was Stephen Mangan. And the rest of them. Nah, not for me.

Mojo · 06-18-2012, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Not sure. I watched two, realised I didn't think it was funny in the least, was very predictable (really? The guy who wrote the book the series was based on was going to be kicked off the show? Didn't see THAT coming!) and Matt LeBlanc was just teeth-grindingly annoying in it. As was Stephen Mangan. And the rest of them. Nah, not for me.

Well, each to their own, of course. However being predictable isnt always a bad thing. The show is about two British writers who go to America to work on their shows American remake. Don't you kind of already know what kind of things are gonna happen? American networks have been insulting their audience for long enough now that, in terms of a lot of the plot and event, the script almost writes itself.

Matt Le Blanc is, in my opinion, also supposed to be a little annoying. His character in the show does have his positive qualities but he's the big, Hollywood choice for the lead actor. He's meant to be a bit of a prima donna.

Trollheart · 06-18-2012, 03:39 AM

Now that I've woken up and can think a little more clearly, here are (for those who care) some more examples of Next Gen following up ideas/premises/plots:

1. Ensign Sito: When Wesley Crusher's squad at the Academy engages in a dangerous aerobatic manouver in "The first duty", which results in one of the cadets getting killed, they all cover up the truth so as not to be kicked out. Ensign Sito, who was one of those who participated in the coverup, is later assigned to the Enterprise on the specific request of Captain Picard, who wants to ensure she gets a chance to turn her career and her life around. He chooses her for a secret mission, in "Lower decks", which ultimately results in her death.

2. Worf: We learn in "Firstborn" that sometime in the future Worf is killed by members of the Duras family. Duras's father was the one who betrayed the Klingons at Kittomer, resulting in the death of thousands of them at the hands of the Romulans. Because the Duras family has powerful links to the Great Council however, it is decided to frame Worf's father. When the truth comes to light, Worf accepts the disgrace to prevent the empire from descending into civil war. Later, Duras kills Worf's mate and Worf kills him, but Duras's sisters continue to plot against Worf and the Council. Thus a blood-feud develops, which culminates with Worf's assassination in the far future.

3. Ensign Ro: Seconded to the Enterprise against Picard's wishes, Ro Laren has been serving time in a Federation prison for desertion of duty, but Picard warms to her and she becomes his protoge, eventually infiltrating the Maquis near the end of the series, but "going native" and joining them, thus destroying the faith Picard had placed in her.

There are so many more examples. Characters in NG and DS9 developed, grew, or sometimes regressed, and anything major (or sometimes minor) that happened often had consequences further down the line. In Voyager, Janeway spouts high and mighty ideals but does not stick to them. Kirk broke the Prime Directive as easily as breaking wind, where Picard was so adamant NOT to break it that he was prepared to allow an entire civilisation to fall ("Homeward") and ignore a cry for help ("Pen pals"), but at least he stuck to his convictions. Janeway used the PD as it suited her, implementing it when she wanted and ignoring or finding a way around it when it was inconvenient to her purposes.

That could have been accepted. They were, after all, far from home and surely the ideals of the Federation could not necessarily be expected to apply. But she decided they should, then broke that code whenever she wanted. She would have been much better to have adopted the Maquis way of thinking, which would have been more appropriate to, and useful in, the Delta Quadrant.

I'm not saying Voyager was awful: there were a few good episodes and a story like "The year of Hell" showed what the writers could do when they tried. It's just that they didn't try all that often. There was of course, Seven of Nine, but then, to balance that out, there was Neelix, possibly the most hated Trek character ever (yeah, even including Wesley!) --- sort of Star Trek's answer to Jar Jar Binks!

LoathsomePete · 06-18-2012, 12:43 PM

Series 2 of Luther is on Netflix now so I'll be watching that for the next couple of days. Sadly it's only four episodes, but I shall cherish every one.

**Janszoon** · 06-18-2012, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Voyager was basically a soap opera in space, with a few good episodes but a major drawback in that no matter how bad the ship got hit, it was always back to top condition next episode. Decisions taken in one ep rarely if ever had consequences in future ones, and can I just say FAIR HAVEN!!!??? Say no more, for those who know.

I would say the fact that Voyager was more episodic makes it less like a soap opera than Deep Space Nine actually.

Neigh-Sayer · 06-18-2012, 11:21 PM

I was really into New Girl (huge crush on Zooey Deschanel) and Once Upon a Time while they were on. This summer, I've mostly been watching reruns of The Office and a few cooking/travel shows on PBS.

Trollheart · 06-19-2012, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I would say the fact that Voyager was more episodic makes it less like a soap opera than Deep Space Nine actually.

Jansz, it's not just that it was mostly standalone episodes that make it the soap opera of Star Trek, it's the overinterest in people's relationships in favour of proper sci-fi storylines. They spent more time worrying about how Seven would relate to the Doctor (two of the only good characters in the show imo and both wasted, again imo) than how paper-thin the plots in what they laughingly termed "stories" were, how they could be resolved and how they might have an effect on future storylines.

I mean, at one stage they lost Harry Kim in some accident. Huge cheers went up, but then they popped into some alternate universe and half-inched their Harry! Boo! Also very lazy and sloppy story-telling. The idea of all the Maquis just toeing the Starfleet line cos Janeway said so was laughable: the Maquis had no love for Starfleet (seeing as how they were always being hunted down by them, on behalf of a race who became one of both's biggest enemies, the Cardassians), not to mention the fact that Voyager's original mission had been to capture the leaders of the Maquis (Chakotay/Torres) with Tuvok a spy in their midst. They should have torn the ship apart, treated it as a basic prison ship from which they were never likely to escape! All this should have been explored, at least over a few episodes, with tensions arising as maybe some Maquis tried to take over Voyager. But no, it was all resolved in the very first episode. Pathetic.

I could go on. I may, if you're unlucky, but I'm just pointing out that the episodic nature of Voyager wasn't the only reason it was seen as a soap in space. And if DS9 was a soap, it was the biggest, baddest, most un-PC soap in the history of soaps!

**Janszoon** · 06-19-2012, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Jansz, it's not just that it was mostly standalone episodes that make it the soap opera of Star Trek, it's the overinterest in people's relationships in favour of proper sci-fi storylines. They spent more time worrying about how Seven would relate to the Doctor (two of the only good characters in the show imo and both wasted, again imo) than how paper-thin the plots in what they laughingly termed "stories" were, how they could be resolved and how they might have an effect on future storylines.

I mean, at one stage they lost Harry Kim in some accident. Huge cheers went up, but then they popped into some alternate universe and half-inched their Harry! Boo! Also very lazy and sloppy story-telling. The idea of all the Maquis just toeing the Starfleet line cos Janeway said so was laughable: the Maquis had no love for Starfleet (seeing as how they were always being hunted down by them, on behalf of a race who became one of both's biggest enemies, the Cardassians), not to mention the fact that Voyager's original mission had been to capture the leaders of the Maquis (Chakotay/Torres) with Tuvok a spy in their midst. They should have torn the ship apart, treated it as a basic prison ship from which they were never likely to escape! All this should have been explored, at least over a few episodes, with tensions arising as maybe some Maquis tried to take over Voyager. But no, it was all resolved in the very first episode. Pathetic.

I could go on. I may, if you're unlucky, but I'm just pointing out that the episodic nature of Voyager wasn't the only reason it was seen as a soap in space. And if DS9 was a soap, it was the biggest, baddest, most un-PC soap in the history of soaps!

Hey, I'm not denying Voyager had its fair share of cheese, every Star Trek show has been served with with a sizable slice of cheese. I'm just saying it's the show I enjoy the most after TNG. It featured one of my absolute favorite Star Trek characters (The Doctor), was an overall fun show to watch, and even had several episodes I'd describe as "great". I'm glad they didn't do much with the Maquis angle (though they actually did a lot more with it than you imply) because, frankly, Star Trek's propensity toward "space politics" bores the crap out of me. That's one of the reasons I've never really gotten into DS9 actually. I used to watch it here and there during its original run and I found the heavy emphasis on space politics, space religion, and long-winded (read: soap opera-esque

) story lines to be kind of tedious. Don't get me wrong, I'm still planning on trying to work my way through DS9 when I'm done with Voyager, but there's definitely a reason I've watched them in that order.

Trollheart · 06-19-2012, 07:17 PM

Yeah, that will definitely be a problem. DS9 is dark, politically and religiously heavy and not for the casual watcher (though the first two seasons, meh, you could get through it without TOO much trouble: once season three kicks off though you're drawn into a story arc that more or less runs throughout the rest of the series, and you can be lost if you miss out episodes) --- on a side note to that, though I love it and it's my alltime favourite show ever, if you're setup that way then avoid Babylon 5 too, as it won't be to your tastes.

But you should watch it. Really, what a show.

DS9 is worth the effort: darkest and most mature and best written of all the Trek franchise, accepted fact. Sort of. With probably the coolest captain since Picard. Ah, scratch that: coolest captain ever.

**Janszoon** · 06-19-2012, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Yeah, that will definitely be a problem. DS9 is dark, politically and religiously heavy and not for the casual watcher (though the first two seasons, meh, you could get through it without TOO much trouble: once season three kicks off though you're drawn into a story arc that more or less runs throughout the rest of the series, and you can be lost if you miss out episodes) --- on a side note to that, though I love it and it's my alltime favourite show ever, if you're setup that way then avoid Babylon 5 too, as it won't be to your tastes.

But you should watch it. Really, what a show.

DS9 is worth the effort: darkest and most mature and best written of all the Trek franchise, accepted fact. Sort of. With probably the coolest captain since Picard. Ah, scratch that: coolest captain ever.

Dark is absolutely fine with me. The problem is that space politics and space religion make it feel goofy to me instead of dark. I've only made it partway through season 1 of Babylon 5 for similar reasons.

06-18-2012, 03:39 AM	#1173 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,971	Now that I've woken up and can think a little more clearly, here are (for those who care) some more examples of Next Gen following up ideas/premises/plots: 1. Ensign Sito: When Wesley Crusher's squad at the Academy engages in a dangerous aerobatic manouver in "The first duty", which results in one of the cadets getting killed, they all cover up the truth so as not to be kicked out. Ensign Sito, who was one of those who participated in the coverup, is later assigned to the Enterprise on the specific request of Captain Picard, who wants to ensure she gets a chance to turn her career and her life around. He chooses her for a secret mission, in "Lower decks", which ultimately results in her death. 2. Worf: We learn in "Firstborn" that sometime in the future Worf is killed by members of the Duras family. Duras's father was the one who betrayed the Klingons at Kittomer, resulting in the death of thousands of them at the hands of the Romulans. Because the Duras family has powerful links to the Great Council however, it is decided to frame Worf's father. When the truth comes to light, Worf accepts the disgrace to prevent the empire from descending into civil war. Later, Duras kills Worf's mate and Worf kills him, but Duras's sisters continue to plot against Worf and the Council. Thus a blood-feud develops, which culminates with Worf's assassination in the far future. 3. Ensign Ro: Seconded to the Enterprise against Picard's wishes, Ro Laren has been serving time in a Federation prison for desertion of duty, but Picard warms to her and she becomes his protoge, eventually infiltrating the Maquis near the end of the series, but "going native" and joining them, thus destroying the faith Picard had placed in her. There are so many more examples. Characters in NG and DS9 developed, grew, or sometimes regressed, and anything major (or sometimes minor) that happened often had consequences further down the line. In Voyager, Janeway spouts high and mighty ideals but does not stick to them. Kirk broke the Prime Directive as easily as breaking wind, where Picard was so adamant NOT to break it that he was prepared to allow an entire civilisation to fall ("Homeward") and ignore a cry for help ("Pen pals"), but at least he stuck to his convictions. Janeway used the PD as it suited her, implementing it when she wanted and ignoring or finding a way around it when it was inconvenient to her purposes. That could have been accepted. They were, after all, far from home and surely the ideals of the Federation could not necessarily be expected to apply. But she decided they should, then broke that code whenever she wanted. She would have been much better to have adopted the Maquis way of thinking, which would have been more appropriate to, and useful in, the Delta Quadrant. I'm not saying Voyager was awful: there were a few good episodes and a story like "The year of Hell" showed what the writers could do when they tried. It's just that they didn't try all that often. There was of course, Seven of Nine, but then, to balance that out, there was Neelix, possibly the most hated Trek character ever (yeah, even including Wesley!) --- sort of Star Trek's answer to Jar Jar Binks! __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018 Last edited by Trollheart; 06-18-2012 at 09:18 AM.

06-18-2012, 12:43 PM	#1174 (permalink)
LoathsomePete Cardboard Box Realtor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Hobb's End Posts: 7,648	Series 2 of Luther is on Netflix now so I'll be watching that for the next couple of days. Sadly it's only four episodes, but I shall cherish every one. __________________ Last.FM 101 Albums That May Not Change Your Life, But I Really Like And You Might Too

06-19-2012, 07:17 PM	#1179 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,971	Yeah, that will definitely be a problem. DS9 is dark, politically and religiously heavy and not for the casual watcher (though the first two seasons, meh, you could get through it without TOO much trouble: once season three kicks off though you're drawn into a story arc that more or less runs throughout the rest of the series, and you can be lost if you miss out episodes) --- on a side note to that, though I love it and it's my alltime favourite show ever, if you're setup that way then avoid Babylon 5 too, as it won't be to your tastes. But you should watch it. Really, what a show. DS9 is worth the effort: darkest and most mature and best written of all the Trek franchise, accepted fact. Sort of. With probably the coolest captain since Picard. Ah, scratch that: coolest captain ever. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

06-18-2012, 11:21 PM	#1176 (permalink)
Neigh-Sayer Groupie Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: The Volunteer State Posts: 17	I was really into New Girl (huge crush on Zooey Deschanel) and Once Upon a Time while they were on. This summer, I've mostly been watching reruns of The Office and a few cooking/travel shows on PBS.