VEGANGELICA

Yes, I think you are very right that what I'm liking in The Beach Boys' music is the sunshine pop style and the exquisite harmony, starrynight.

"She's Leaving Home" by the Beatles doesn't seem to be about a *real* person to me, and she is described in third person, so this song makes me feel like a voyeur on the life of a fictional woman leaving home, rather than inviting me *into* her life as if I were she.

I feel the Beatles' lyrics about people often involve exaggeration to create an artificial, over-the-top portrayal of characters who don't feel real to me, so I don't step into their shoes easily. (Think of the "Fool" or "Lucy" or a host of other characters they describe.)

The Beatles' lyrics are often like strange, modern art paintings, and I love that quality about them. The Beach Boys' songs are much more down-to-earth and their best songs in my view are like watching a beloved home video, showing a real moment frozen in time:


The Beach Boys - I'd Love Just Once To See You (Stereo) - YouTube

All very possible. I'll see if I can find the source of the information about "Girl" being a criticism of Christianity.

Here it is:

__________________

starrynight

Maybe The Beatles might have a more over the top fantasy feel to some of their music, a kind of British ironic detachment. However there are some songs which are more personal, Lennon's song Julia for instance is about his mother. There can be a scope to The Beatles music across themes of politics, cultures and styles that gives the music a broad interest and I think is why they have been acclaimed more. As I have said The Beach Boys have their own distinct qualities which will appeal in a different way.

__________________
non-cliquey member of every music forum I participate on

VEGANGELICA

You summarized my feelings about The Beatles and The Beach Boys well.

Julia is one of my favorite Beatles songs because it is so personal yet also has a fantasy feel due to the poetry of it. It is a very beautiful song. I like that it doesn't seem to be trying to prove how creative it is, which is the impression I get with some of the other Beatles songs.

I read that John Lennon might also have written Julia with thoughts of Yoko in mind (whose first name apparently means "child of the sea") and also his son. My favorite line is this one: "When I cannot sing my heart, I can only speak my mind," describing (I think) the limits of words in expressing emotions about someone:


The Beatles - Julia - YouTube

__________________

Goofle

Neither band is worth this extensive discussion.

__________________

Howard the Duck

^^The Beach Boys, yes

The Beatles not so much, cos there's nothing you can say that hasn't already been said

__________________


Malaise is THE dominant human predilection.

Unknown Soldier

Its the same as the Nirvana vs Pixies discussion, it just becomes pointless and tiresome in the end.

Surell

This is my third time trying to get this in, but i'm prevailing this time.

Conceptual Depth: To judge this, we have to enter the mind of Wilson while composing Pet Sounds and SMiLE: Drugged out, antisocial, perfectionist, and a sensitive artist guy. On the two albums, he strives for innocence, youth, love, and triumph; things he was lacking. His label, which he shared with the Beatles, didn't want to put out his form of experimentation, likely because it wasn't the same kind his colleagues were finding success with. The drugs were feeding into his paranoid state and his music at the same time. No one was approving of his art, aside from Van **** Parks, so he was feeling more depressed and straying from the innocence in which he was sheltered as a youth. So the music represented his desires to be young and pure, to love everyone, and to find victory; after all, there's a lot of 50's-early 60's influence in his songwriting (motown, R&B, gospel, some country and jazz, etc.). The classical complexity and lyrical themes display his turmoil in meeting these desires.

BTW: According to Wikipedia, the album is based mostly on Acid and Zen philosophy, along with a zen riddle foundation called "koan" which is supposed to "free one from preconceptions."

Lyrical Originality: Though it seems the lyrics are simply about California summer love (which is really only the case on Pet Sounds), there's a tinge of doubt and anxiety throughout. The first point made in "God Only Knows" is that, though right now he's head over heels in love with his woman, helpless even, he doesn't know how he'll feel tomorrow. He'll be miserable, and he wants to assure her of this, but the possibility of the infatuation dying is recognized. This also arises on "Wouldn't It Be Nice," which looks at ideal infatuation while realizing the reality of most relationships. Now, on SMiLE, pretty much all this changes. Sure, "Good Vibrations" is pretty much a love song, but the writing is psychedelic, based on spiritual "vibrations" he feels from a very special lady. Aside from this, many of the songs deal with varied subject matter, or sometimes a more abstract kind; told through themes, harmonies, or word repetition. I mean, there's songs about eating your vegetables and the joy it can bring a lad ("Vega-tables") or "Heroes and Villains," a constantly shifting ballad about a lover he lost and how he lives amongst chaos- this is more face value evaluation. There's also "Child is Father of the Man," which merely repeats those words in an intriguing melody. This sounds boring in text, i'm sure, but it's one of the best tracks on SMiLE.

Musical Techniques: The way to see it is opposite of the Beatles of this era: They were pop-chameleons, who used various styles in a pop songwriting format for experimental value; they meandered a little into Classical composition, but used it mostly as a backdrop for more Rock/Pop records/songs. It was a more overt manner of experimentation/eclecticism compared to Wilson's way. The Beach Boys began practically with a classical template for writing and composing: focusing on shifts, harmonies that compliment in contradiction rather than uniformity (a theme of the music), and incorporating pop elements for the music's tone and instrumentation. From there you see what genres you'd like to blend into the composition: There's country ("Cabin Essence"), western saloon playing ("Heroes and Villains") gospel in the harmonies, R&B and Motown in the lyricism and some instrumentation, a little folk in some lyrics and playing (though a little lush), jazz in instrumentation, and, of course, the rock and pop undertones.

That's my thesis.

I'd use Heroes and Villains, but i'm scared it'll break the romance rule, so here's my contribution:



Child is Father of the Man. If you look up the Brian Wilson version, he has more lyrics, about a boy making his way in the world and whatnot.

The vocal harmonies are complex enough, jumping out at you and then soothing immediately after. There's a couple of shifts as well, a mark of Classical level writing, or at least jazz. The theme of the song is evocative/thought provoking, and it does it without even having to use more than six words. As i said, the theme is further explored on Wilson's own version, which sounds somewhat different as well, but i chose this one.

__________________

starrynight

Yeh I was also thinking that the Smile era can be seen as more complex Beach Boys. The lyrics to Surf's Up for instance. Complexity in itself is less important to me that the artful craft of music though, some things might be less obviously complex but still sophisticated by the art involved.

__________________
non-cliquey member of every music forum I participate on

Howard the Duck

^^Van **** Parks' lyrics are nothing less than pretentious codswallop to me

__________________


Malaise is THE dominant human predilection.

Howard the Duck

^^don't rattle your gonads in my ears, brother

__________________


Malaise is THE dominant human predilection.