| Terrapin_Station |
08-30-2021 05:31 AM |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie Monday
(Post 2183223)
Context, non-verbal communication, and lots of other things. I'd never thought the forum's resident Autism Girl would ever get to explain these things to someone
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So explain how you believe it works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisnaholic
(Post 2183257)
I'd like a thread of "Zappa Fans Who Disagree With Terrapin's Take On Meaning" please. Because I'm not remotely buying into this idea:-
"Five disgusting cockroaches" Does this term depend on what an individual has in mind? How can it mean anything except a precise number of insects that the speaker dislikes? If an individual has "three nice ponies" in mind, that's a misinterpretation; it's not, imo, an equally valid, subjective way to think about the term "five disgusting cockroaches".
(Examples of "five" not meaning 5 and "disgusting" used in a way that is not negatively judgemental would be appreciated, plus, for good measure, a subjective meaning for cockroach that is significantly different from what I'll find if I google "cockroach".)
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I'm guilty of contributing to this underratement. I never listen to Läther, and I can't remember why.
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We can do a semantics (philosophy of meaning) thread if you like, and I'll explain how meaning does and doesn't work for you, where you can argue with me all you like, and in infinite patience I'll keep working on your understanding until you finally do understand or until you give up, but maybe there's a more appropriate subforum for it here? Do we have an off-topic subforum?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frownland
(Post 2183262)
Zappa intended it to be a ultra lengthy release but the studio made him spread it out across several albums (Zappa in New York, Studio Tan, Sleep Dirt, Orchestral Favorites, and various bonus tracks). Some tracks are early variations from how they were originally released iirc. I'm partial to it because I think it flows really well and encompasses a lot of different sides of Zappa.
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I've never bought that story, by the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guybrush
(Post 2183265)
As I already stated, it took me a while (years) to arrive at my current position. I don't want FZ to have been sexist. However, I also don't want to be blind to it and either way I can't really unsee it.
I suggested you bring up some evidence to support your position. Seriously, I would like to be proven wrong. Having played with some of the guys isn't really much in the way of that.
Whereas I've provided sources for many of my claims, you seem to assume much about FZ's moral views and values. I think you're more guilty of projecting than I am.
What I've seen a few times now are attempts to veer the debate into philosophical discussion. I guess one of a couple of reasons you do this is because in a world where general attitudes towards sexism have changed, you have done some convoluted, philosophical mental gymnastics that allow your ideas about sexism to stay relatively unchanged. Those same or similar mental gymnastics can be used to defend FZ against attacks on his moral views. I could be wrong, but this is the impression I get.
Don't stunt your growth.
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I already explained the problems with your scant sources. I can explain it again, although you'll just repeat the above again, of course.
There are serious philosophical problems with the views fueling the belief that sexism, racism, etc. are rampant at present. I'm more than happy to get into as detailed of a discussion about that as you'd like to get into. (But again, we should probably do it in an off-topic subforum if we have one.) |
